Thread: Hand held thermal now legal on public land

Please remember we are not the only legitimate recreational users of the Conservation Estate

There are Trampers, Runners, Mountain Bikers, 4x4 users, climbers, kayakers and rafters.
The list goes on.
That is why we need to identify beyond all doubt what we are shooting it.

These other user groups behave vastly differently to hunters in the conservation estate and therefore pop up in different places doing different things.
A newby hunter or the vastly experienced hunter can all make fatal mistakes in identification.
Using a thermal is just a new way of making old mistakes

For day light spotting in open country I don't think there is any harm in it, certainly a game changer for spotting game with the high end models. If anything it's annoying that they will soon become a must have an another very expensive piece of kit that everyone carry's around.
However the rifle scope versions for night shooting are definitely crossing the line and should not be used on DOC Land. To me thats definitely in the realm of pest control and not hunting.

Originally Posted by akaroa1

Please remember we are not the only legitimate recreational users of the Conservation Estate

There are Trampers, Runners, Mountain Bikers, 4x4 users, climbers, kayakers and rafters.
The list goes on.
That is why we need to identify beyond all doubt what we are shooting it.

These other user groups behave vastly differently to hunters in the conservation estate and therefore pop up in different places doing different things.
A newby hunter or the vastly experienced hunter can all make fatal mistakes in identification.
Using a thermal is just a new way of making old mistakes

Agree wholeheartedly with this, was in the position of walking behind a mate in the Pureora(s - haha) who was wearing a faded blaze cam shirt. In the afternoon sunlight, passing through ferns - the colour fully matched the summer coat of a red hind and several times it had me going oi and getting my radar twitching. I grabbed the shirt off him and went for a walk holding it, and he was shocked - saw the same thing I did. I'll never touch faded blaze again that's for sure. It's already easy for bad calls to happen, you don't need to help them along when you don't need to.

They are a great tool for culling / getting meat but using them for trophy hunting on public land like a lot of guys do doesn’t sit right with me.

A danger is that thermals pick up indistinct heat signals, especially in scrub and bush. And the cheaper thermal spotters that will be mostly used (35mm/$2.5k types) have lower definition. Even in open country it can be difficult to clearly define what the heat source is. Shooting at these heat spots could be a disaster, and people will do it - you can bet on it. People will also be tempted to shoot at heat signals when shooting light is marginal - you can bet on that too.

It will be an absolute essential to check heat sources with good binos, or be absolutely certain through the thermal the shape is an animal. Using these on public land adds another level of risk to everyone. Ive previously seen poorly edited You Tube vids of these being used on DOC land by hoons. With drinking involved. It makes me uneasy.

The risk is less on private land because other people are less likely to be about - but there are no guarantees.

Originally Posted by Tahr

A danger is that thermals pick up indistinct heat signals, especially in scrub and bush. And the cheaper thermal spotters that will be mostly used (35mm/$2.5k types) have lower definition. Even in open country it can be difficult to clearly define what the heat source is. Shooting at these heat spots could be a disaster, and people will do it - you can bet on it. People will also be tempted to shoot at heat signals when shooting light is marginal - you can bet on that too.

It will be an absolute essential to check heat sources with good binos, or be absolutely certain through the thermal the shape is an animal. Using these on public land adds another level of risk to everyone. Ive previously seen poorly edited You Tube vids of these being used on DOC land by hoons. With drinking involved. It makes me uneasy.

The risk is less on private land because other people are less likely to be about - but there are no guarantees.

A mates Uncle was shot dead in the Horomunga a few months ago by miss identified heat signature. I don't know a lot of details about it but there's certainly going to be an increased danger level.

Originally Posted by Tahr

A danger is that thermals pick up indistinct heat signals, especially in scrub and bush. And the cheaper thermal spotters that will be mostly used (35mm/$2.5k types) have lower definition. Even in open country it can be difficult to clearly define what the heat source is. Shooting at these heat spots could be a disaster, and people will do it - you can bet on it. People will also be tempted to shoot at heat signals when shooting light is marginal - you can bet on that too.

It will be an absolute essential to check heat sources with good binos, or be absolutely certain through the thermal the shape is an animal. Using these on public land adds another level of risk to everyone. Ive previously seen poorly edited You Tube vids of these being used on DOC land by hoons. With drinking involved. It makes me uneasy.

The risk is less on private land because other people are less likely to be about - but there are no guarantees.

I don't think this scenario is that likely with handheld thermals. When you spot a heat signature it is actually quite hard to figure out exactly where it is. Trees and surrounding features look quite different in the thermal so it can be hard to pinpoint where the object actually is through the binos or naked eye. The only info you really get is that there is something warm in a rather general area. This generally necessitates the use of binos to follow up where exactly and what this heat signature is. You cant really shoot at a heat signature because you wouldn't be confident as to where exactly it was without follow up with binos or at least the optical rifle scope (not advisable).

Now rifle mounted thermal scopes are a different story, but these are still not legal to use on DOC land for good reason. From what I have heard the recent accidents have involved the misuse of thermal scopes not handheld thermals. With these you really can blaze away at an indistinct white blob.

As someone said previously thermals are just a new way to make old mistakes. The type of people stupid enough to lob rounds in the general direction of a heat signature are the same ones who regularly shoot their mates after hearing some rustling in a bush etc etc. I agree with DOC on this one, the risks of handheld thermal use are minimal compared to all the other ways in which you can misidentify a target. Shooting at sound or movement while bush stalking is still far more dangerous and likely to result in an accident in my opinion.

I am happy to use thermals, a big part of hunting for me is actually bringing a decent amount of meat home to the family. With the cost of everything going up so much and having to convince the wife to babysit the kids alone so I can get out occasionally it really is painful coming home empty handed. They do help pick up a lot more animals specially in distant faces covered in matagouri and bracken which are particularly hard to glass effectively with binos. But I always follow up with my binos to identify my target before proceeding further.

Originally Posted by Juicy

I don't think this scenario is that likely with handheld thermals. When you spot a heat signature it is actually quite hard to figure out exactly where it is. Trees and surrounding features look quite different in the thermal so it can be hard to pinpoint where the object actually is through the binos or naked eye. The only info you really get is that there is something warm in a rather general area. This generally necessitates the use of binos to follow up where exactly and what this heat signature is. You cant really shoot at a heat signature because you wouldn't be confident as to where exactly it was without follow up with binos or at least the optical rifle scope (not advisable).

Now rifle mounted thermal scopes are a different story, but these are still not legal to use on DOC land for good reason. From what I have heard the recent accidents have involved the misuse of thermal scopes not handheld thermals. With these you really can blaze away at an indistinct white blob.

As someone said previously thermals are just a new way to make old mistakes. The type of people stupid enough to lob rounds in the general direction of a heat signature are the same ones who regularly shoot their mates after hearing some rustling in a bush etc etc. I agree with DOC on this one, the risks of handheld thermal use are minimal compared to all the other ways in which you can misidentify a target. Shooting at sound or movement while bush stalking is still far more dangerous and likely to result in an accident in my opinion.

I am happy to use thermals, a big part of hunting for me is actually bringing a decent amount of meat home to the family. With the cost of everything going up so much and having to convince the wife to babysit the kids alone so I can get out occasionally it really is painful coming home empty handed. They do help pick up a lot more animals specially in distant faces covered in matagouri and bracken which are particularly hard to glass effectively with binos. But I always follow up with my binos to identify my target before proceeding further.

That makes sense.

Since the eighties, in various scenarios, I have used night vision and in later years thermal devices. It takes a bit of practice/use to get your head around what you're looking at with some of the older gear but most of the modern stuff is pretty good. I carry around a basic Hikmicro LH15 a lot of the time for general spotting and even using that you can identify what you're looking at out to reasonable range. eg. deer,pigs, goats @ 350m+ which is probably further than most people should be shooting at night. Before anyone pipes up, all my night shooting is done in previously scouted areas with known background/backdrop. This gear is just another tool for effective pest control shooting, not sport hunting. my 2c worth. Now I'm off out to carry on another nights deer control.

These products are also extremely ripe for miss use. Combined with moderators, they provide added safety/ confidence too poachers and stock thieves.

Originally Posted by whanahuia

These products are also extremely ripe for miss use. Combined with moderators, they provide added safety/ confidence too poachers and stock thieves.

Just the fact of clarifying their use on crown land won't change the fact that law breakers will use them for poaching etc though.

Originally Posted by No.3

Just the fact of clarifying their use on crown land won't change the fact that law breakers will use them for poaching etc though.

True. Though looking at it from a landowners perspective, and having had every excuse thrown my way. Its another out when you confront them. Before this they couldn't claim it was legal either side of the boundary fence.

Heard of that when I was back in Rotorua last month, got no facts other than here say. Can't understand it wasn't big in the news

Here's the article from the herald. No real facts though. My understanding is there were 2 separate parties hunting ( most probably illegally at that time of the day although that's an assumption on my part) and one party picked up a heat blob in their thermal and shot it. Sadly it wasn't a deer.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/waikato-n...AUAAZGF5ZZ2UE/

Originally Posted by RUMPY

Here's the article from the herald. No real facts though. My understanding is there were 2 separate parties hunting ( most probably illegally at that time of the day although that's an assumption on my part) and one party picked up a heat blob in their thermal and shot it. Sadly it wasn't a deer.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/waikato-n...AUAAZGF5ZZ2UE/

That is quite sad, something that will forever hold us back. Sort of like WHY do people shoot road signs