Heli sika dropping multiple parties into the same block

Just got home from a walk in trip the western side of the kaimanawas. As always during the roar, lots of hunters around. To my surprise and perhaps a bit naive on this, is the fact that heli sika was dropping multiple parties into the same block. We were at waipakihi hut for a night, and found out that heli sika had dropped 3 different parties, totalling 11 people into the hut. The people at the hut told us that Omaru hut had about 20 people in there the weekend before, also dropped in by heli sika.

Is this a normal thing now? And how does everyone feel about this? If you booked a hunt over the roar and turned up at the hanger knowing there are 2 other parties at the hut already.

Depends if it is a bookable hut or a starting point hut, Boyd is the same

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That sux...big time. If that’s what they plan on doing then they should be upfront and tell you that before you book FFS

Personally I would like some honesty or more of a heads up in something like that. If I’m shelling out my hard earned I would prefer them to say we have dropped 11 people off there in the last couple of days. Then possibly I could plan something somewhere else. It’s only fair for a company like that to try and spread clients out as much as possible, the more successful they are the more return business they are likely to receive. Just my 2 cents worth

I hear what you are saying, Oamaru and Waipakahi are non bookable huts as Boyd, I have to ask what your other options would be as most of them will have had multiple parties dropped in...did you think to ask or did you think you have it all to yourself? Not sure why it should be on them to ask.

When you hop in an Uber or taxi to the pub I'm sure you don't expect them to tell you how many people are already there

Hamish

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Surely on public land you aren't booking a hunt or a block, you're booking a flight. Different story for the private blocks though.

I was always under the impression that anywhere you fly, you'll be pretty certain the same heli operator isn't going to drop another party on top of you the day after, or vice versa, you dont fly in and then found out another party is already there.
Admittedly I don't fly in that much, maybe once a year. I've never heard of an operator dropping multiple parties into one block on top of each other.
The boys we spoke to didn't even know there were already two parties in there until they landed.

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Originally Posted by crocodiledavid

I was always under the impression that anywhere you fly, you'll be pretty certain the same heli operator isn't going to drop another party on top of you the day after, or vice versa, you dont fly in and then found out another party is already there.
Admittedly I don't fly in that much, maybe once a year. I've never heard of an operator dropping multiple parties into one block on top of each other.
The boys we spoke to didn't even know there were already two parties in there until they landed.

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I was atbthe Boyd and they dropped in 2 to 3 times a day, but then there was so many diff ways to go....

Shame either way

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Originally Posted by HNTMAD

I hear what you are saying, Oamaru and Waipakahi are non bookable huts as Boyd, I have to ask what your other options would be as most of them will have had multiple parties dropped in...did you think to ask or did you think you have it all to yourself? Not sure why it should be on them to ask.

When you hop in an Uber or taxi to the pub I'm sure you don't expect them to tell you how many people are already there

Hamish

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Well that’s probably because you expect others to be at the pub, and in fact is also probably part of the reason you go there. So poor analogy, and unhelpful, IMO.

I have found those that walk in most always complain about those that choppered in.

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Originally Posted by Maxx

Well that’s probably because you expect others to be at the pub, and in fact is also probably part of the reason you go there. So poor analogy, and unhelpful, IMO.

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Should always expect others to be at a public hut, especially at happy hour

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Originally Posted by crocodiledavid

Just got home from a walk in trip the western side of the kaimanawas. As always during the roar, lots of hunters around. To my surprise and perhaps a bit naive on this, is the fact that heli sika was dropping multiple parties into the same block. We were at waipakihi hut for a night, and found out that heli sika had dropped 3 different parties, totalling 11 people into the hut. The people at the hut told us that Omaru hut had about 20 people in there the weekend before, also dropped in by heli sika.

Is this a normal thing now? And how does everyone feel about this? If you booked a hunt over the roar and turned up at the hanger knowing there are 2 other parties at the hut already.

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Waipak is a 12 bed hut, so one bed to spare.

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Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Not really a bad analogy. If you know the Boyd, Oamaru and Waipakahi, they can be busier than some pubs. Going to any of those three huts and expecting to be there alone is very wishful thinking. Especially this time of year.

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When looking at the website I was under the impression that paying to hunt in an area meant you were booking the private hunting block for your hunting group. Especially with the hefty land fees. But I guess there may be different fees and expectations for public blocks, and being lifted into a public open doc area I would definitely not expect exclusive rights to it.

Flew into Te Pukeohikarau one time, 4 of us had the hut to ourselves, by the time the sun went down there were 13 of us in the 6 bunk hut...a bit of top-n-tail bunking for a few days...another tramping party called in at sunset and decided to push on to the next hut, Harkness, I think, we didn't tell them that we had already flown there on our way in and hut was full.

Back when Hamish had Helisika he dropped us off at the Oamaru for a couple of days until he could get us up to Te Matai due to weather conditions, a woman at the hut informed us that the hut was divided into male and female dormitories and there was no room for us as all male bunks were taken and she and her daughter were in female dormitory...soon got told of top-n-tail for her kids and mixed gender for bunk rooms...I think she sat up all night keeping an eye on sleeping hunters and trampers.

When we used to fixed wing fly in the helicopters used to fly straight down the valleys, now that the blocks are chopper only they fly the block boundaries...so I noticed in the North Arm a couple of weeks ago.

If it is a public hut and the helicopter company told me this was the case what they were doing i would be fine. (but would change my plans)

I think it was couple years ago a company down south was dropping hunters basically on top of hunters along a ridge or in the general area. He was just collecting the money flying in as many hunters as possible .
The few times i've flown in i will work with the pilot in that general area and get dropped in to a fresh spot and ask if he has had any over parties in that area. Most heli company's that want a good name will be straight up.
Its still not a 100% that somebody hasn't walk in or another heli hasn't dropped another party in.

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Originally Posted by bigbear

If it is a public hut and the helicopter company told me this was the case what they were doing i would be fine. (but would change my plans)

I think it was couple years ago a company down south was dropping hunters basically on top of hunters along a ridge or in the general area. He was just collecting the money flying in as many hunters as possible .
The few times i've flown in i will work with the pilot in that general area and get dropped in to a fresh spot and ask if he has had any over parties in that area. Most heli company's that want a good name will be straight up.
Its still not a 100% that somebody hasn't walk in or another heli hasn't dropped another party in.

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I thought that with DoC blocks the helicopters could only drop off at designated pads, DoC get well paid for something that costs them nothing...landing fees

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Originally Posted by DavidGunn

Flew into Te Pukeohikarau one time, 4 of us had the hut to ourselves, by the time the sun went down there were 13 of us in the 6 bunk hut...a bit of top-n-tail bunking for a few days...another tramping party called in at sunset and decided to push on to the next hut, Harkness, I think, we didn't tell them that we had already flown there on our way in and hut was full.

Back when Hamish had Helisika he dropped us off at the Oamaru for a couple of days until he could get us up to Te Matai due to weather conditions, a woman at the hut informed us that the hut was divided into male and female dormitories and there was no room for us as all male bunks were taken and she and her daughter were in female dormitory...soon got told of top-n-tail for her kids and mixed gender for bunk rooms...I think she sat up all night keeping an eye on sleeping hunters and trampers.

When we used to fixed wing fly in the helicopters used to fly straight down the valleys, now that the blocks are chopper only they fly the block boundaries...so I noticed in the North Arm a couple of weeks ago.

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The arrogance of trampers in the bush never ceases to amaze me.
Once got told in the middle of winter that I couldn't come into a hut because there was only a group of female trampers in it.

It's almost as if they think they own the place. Yet nearly every hut and track was made by cullers and hunter's.

Flew out of Milford into the Kaipo,chopper pilot informed us no one had been in there for awhile ,the hut book said otherwise to the point he flew a party out that morning lying prick.[emoji23]

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Originally Posted by Cigar

Surely on public land you aren't booking a hunt or a block, you're booking a flight. Different story for the private blocks though.

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Perfect reply, operators drop clients where they ask and pay to be dropped (within the operators concessions).
Agreed that it's poor form if they don't make you aware of other known parties prior to booking or undertaking the flight.
Also, public land generally has multiple operators holding concessions to land and commercially fly people there.

It is the roar on public land in a non bookable hut. You cannot be serious if you think they aren't going to drop multiple parties off.

The kaweka has a booking system for heli providers as part of their permits to fly.

The big huts are managed by turangj doc which I belive has a different management strategy.

One could simply ask the heli provider, "how many parties have you flown in to x hut" when booking.

Pretty common sense to think that large popular huts would be full during the busiest hunting time of the year.

I've never had oamaru to myself even mid week in the middle of the winter

Kaweka system sounds like a good idea.

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Originally Posted by JessicaChen

When looking at the website I was under the impression that paying to hunt in an area meant you were booking the private hunting block for your hunting group. Especially with the hefty land fees. But I guess there may be different fees and expectations for public blocks, and being lifted into a public open doc area I would definitely not expect exclusive rights to it.

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What are some of theses land fees?
No such thing in other places I’ve flown into over last few months.


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Originally Posted by Danny

What are some of theses land fees?
No such thing in other places I’ve flown into over last few months.


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Think this is confusion between DOC hunting public land and the Private Hunting Blocks such as those Heli-Sika fly to.
The Doc block's unless on a ballet system could well be free for all and any company with a landing permit can fly parties into them, plus walk ins and trampers.
The Private blocks are differant and yes you should be the only ones there (unless by prior arrangement). Any walk ins hunting would be poaching, but note that many do have DOC access tramping tracks through them.

Z

I remember reading the Tussock hut book in 90's in May post roar. An April post read " Have counted 30 hunters between hut and head of valley, thanks Heli Sika" That post has stuck in my head to this day. Even if this is not correct, and that is quite possible, that is a lot of hunters in there in a small area. Even flying in half that number is a lot in that area. The post went on to say they were stacked three deep in camps. The people sign I saw backed it up. This has been happening for years and some companies are worse than others. I agree that no one should expect a public hut to themselves but some companies have a reputation for a lot more BS, while some work in with others and make sure they are keeping people apart as best as possible. At the end of the day if you hear of companies being shifty with information and you keep giving them your money then they will keep doing it. Would you prefer a block system that means you will struggle to get in anywhere? Tough call. Anyway I worked hard and shot a nice old 7 in valley head. One of two deer seen for the whole trip. He must have been suffering from PTSD:D

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Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Not really a bad analogy. If you know the Boyd, Oamaru and Waipakahi, they can be busier than some pubs. Going to any of those three huts and expecting to be there alone is very wishful thinking. Especially this time of year.

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For sure.........but equally I'd expect the pilot to tell you what you're likely to encounter, so that you can reconsider?

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Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

The private blocks have a daily fee associated with them. Just because they can.

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But the hut use is free

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Originally Posted by Maxx

For sure.........but equally I'd expect the pilot to tell you what you're likely to encounter, so that you can reconsider?

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Reconsider what?...that you might not fly?...fat chance of chopper dropping out of a trip...I seldom ask pilots anything, I know if I was one I would be bull shitting up large...the only time I believed one was when he said we cant land as there were 3 deer on the strip.

Just come back from 2 weeks in Sth Westland (DOC Hut but hard to get to). Flew in, got set up and a chopper from another co landed. The pilot was a bit upset that our pilot hadn't communicated to him that he had a booking heading in. In that area at least, the expectation is that everyone knows who is where and parties try and maintain distance. Over the 2 weeks we had to negotiate no-go areas with several other groups.

Haha yeah mate. The walk is half the fun anyways!
I never expected to have waipakihi hut to myself, hence why it was a stop over at the end of the trip, but hey, I see both sides of the coin. Just thought I'd get a gauge on the general feeling around this topic, doesn't affect me much because I flew with heli sika once and that'll be the last time I fly into the kaimanawas with them

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Originally Posted by crocodiledavid

Haha yeah mate. The walk is half the fun anyways!
I never expected to have waipakihi hut to myself, hence why it was a stop over at the end of the trip, but hey, I see both sides of the coin. Just thought I'd get a gauge on the general feeling around this topic, doesn't affect me much because I flew with heli sika once and that'll be the last time I fly into the kaimanawas with them

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What was your walk time to hut?...just curious as I have never hunted that area, not likely to either...I had a look on map and thought that was a serious walk in.

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Originally Posted by DavidGunn

What was your walk time to hut?...just curious as I have never hunted that area, not likely to either...I had a look on map and thought that was a serious walk in.

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Spent three days slowly getting there. Took 5 hours to walk out to the carpark.

Its about 5 hours from the hut to the car and maybe 6 to 6 and half from the car to the hut (a few more uphills)

It's a cruisy walk along the tops apart from the hill at the two ends. Very hunt able all the way along the track off both sides as well.

Perfectly reasonable. Om and Boyd are access points. Different as you get further in. As far I I've seen, Hs and CC have their own linked book system to ensure they're not dropping multiples into other areas.

Seems to me like people need to do some more research on whether they are flying into a private block or public land.

Had helisika drop a sika foundation party on us 2 days into a 5 day trip. They were pissed off and so was I when I came back to the hut and found another 3 guys there. Last time I flew with HS as I found them full of shit. Such a shame they have exclusive access

Interesting topic with some mixed views and experiences being shared. One school of thought being that it’s public land and you are only paying for the flight therefor they just drop in as many parties to the same place as they want. The other being that if you book a flight in and out of a location then that helicopter company and the others who work the area will not drop other people on top of you and double you up. Obviously people can walk in and come from anywhere which is completely out of everyones control.

I have always been under the impression that the later was how things worked. Especially for landing sites, dedicated areas and small huts. To be fair i’ve never flown public land with heli sika and obviously that’s not how things work everywhere. My experience comes from down south where you book a flight into said valley and then no-one else will be dropped there during the same time as all the chopper companies communicate to make sure no-one is doubled up. I certainly understand that large huts/lodges can accomodate multiple parties so that makes sense to be able to double up there etc.

I see both sides to it. My guess is how they operate completely depends on where you are going and the nature of that area for accomodation and access opportunities etc. There’s so many variables like if you are going into a start point for a walk out trip or if you are staying there the whole time etc etc. Heli Sika wouldn’t be my first pick for a sika country flight anyway.

anyone else remember Bob Jones's reaction to a journo choppering in and interupting his fishing????

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

anyone else remember Bob Jones's reaction to a journo choppering in and interupting his fishing????

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Gold

Yes, Bob Jones was all fight - the journo hit wrote a book about it years later. The pilot was taken to court and fined - no permit to land.

Anyway my experience of HS and Lakeland Heli throughout the 90's to early 2000 - they use to fax one another in the early days to advise when they were dropping off hunters in the public land to avoid the issue. Must have worked i guess as i was doing multiple trips per year in the Kaimanawa's including Waipakihi hut. Seems like things have changed out there from others are saying - good communication is a good thing with the technology we have in these times if used correctly?