Thread: Illegal hunting..does it bother you?

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

jeeze I hope its folded shut or in a sheath...you could do damage to the tender artillery also in your undies!!!!!
of are you chasing the "dirty womans fleas" located IN your undies with a knife????
scary either way.

'dirty woman's fleas'? Whad dat?

well if you go visit some " dirty girls" and come away scratching your pubes...you will find answer soon enough LOL

It pisses me right off !!!!

Here's a good one for you all.....

I rolled into a hut a few weeks back with my 13year old son, there were a couple of young 'hunters' from Nelson just packing up and a tramper in residence.

My young fella asks the 'hunters' if they have seen any deer. "Yea heaps, about 6 i think" was the reply. Given the area I think.....shit that's pretty good.

They carry on packing and I notice a thermal and a couple of spotlights, so does my boy.
We then went outside and my boy says to me.." i don't want to jump to any conclusions but did you see that thermal and spotlights?"

Yep i did, so decide to ask them a question....

"Those deer you seen, they didn't happen to be at night did they?"

"Shit yea bro, I've never actually shot a deer in the daytime"! Was the reply.

Unfucking believable !!! No private land for miles only national park !!!

Turns out from talking to the tramper who returned later in the day that they never actually went hunting in the day only at night !!

I find this sort of shit sooooo disappointing!!










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Originally Posted by Kudu

Thats not how I read it. On the not allowed list under section 4 on the permit shown on page 2, there is a separate line that states Spotlights, thermal and infa-red is not allowed to be use for hunting...it does not state at either night or day. Now of course it is more common to use these items at night, but it does not say that. it just says you cannot use them. So if you have a themal on your belt during the day when you are out hunting I would say that is a No-No according to the permit.

Heres the thing. Clearly thermal and night vision, infa-red was added to the line that had spotlights, torches etc when they became avaiable to be used.
Clearly its meant for night, even thou its not black and white and stated but common logic would say that. You not going to use a spotlight during the day, or nightvision and the powers that be prob
thought you not really going to use thermal during the day either but clearly you can.
Considering its not stated its banned during daylight, and the whole clause in that line is for safety....ie id target etc esp during darkness i think you find one of two things.
1 Nobody, including a DOC person will give a crap if you using a thermal during daylight hours .
2 And even if in the unlikely event that one did its highly unlikely you going to be taken to court and if you did you prob win.

And on another note to just confirm, yukon who sell the thermals wrote to DOC, and have the letter on their website stating basicly the use of them in daylight is fine, and at night is fine as well as long as at night you not hunting with them or ihave the intend to hunt during darkness.
So, common sense and information stated on thermal selling websites its totally fine to use during daylight and lets face it,considering the non action in trying to police or catch people illegally hunting during darkness in DOC
do you really believe they going to worry about you during daylight as long as you have a permit, i think not

Plus if i went into DOC land during the day and using a thermal, im not using the thermal to hunt, but to spot game on a face etc. After spotting the game, the thermal is put away
and i then stalk that game i now know thats there. In a court of law, you allowed to use a thermal to spot game, and after im clearly not using that thermal to hunt so using one during daylight will always hold up in court.
Toitally different at night as hunting after daylight is forbidden, totally different so dont worry about not using a thermal during daylight

I dont have a thermal but have hunted with guys that do and see them in the same light as a fish finder.
Plenty of guys used thermals on Tahr but that didnt remove enough Tahr to save them from the machines

Originally Posted by Rushy

As to the original question, yes illegal hunting and for that matter, anything else that brings our fraternity into disrepute pisses me off.

+1

Illegal shooting not only concerns me, it scares the shit out of me.
I have had a number of incidents where illegal shooting by others has put my safety at risk, on both public and private land, and on one of those occasions I was actually hunting with a DOC Ranger.

For that reason, I no longer hunt on public land.

Originally Posted by deer243

Thermal Imagers on Department of Conservation managed land.
Using thermal imagers on D.O.C. managed land is great for safe target identification, or spotting game day and night. However, shooting at night is disallowed, so if using night vision or thermal imaging at night, intent not to hunt must be proven. An empty rifle chamber and magazine is sufficient proof at night, or better still, leave the rifle behind when spotting game.

This is written on yukons website.
Fact. yes, using spotlights, torches, any light source and thermals, heat seeking devices etc hunting at night is banned
2 Using any of these devices etc while not hunting is ok. DOc cant stop you walking a DOC track at night using a torch, spotlight searching for animals etc to record numbers etc if you without a firearm or anything to havest a animal with.
It wont hold up in court.......but do you want the hassle when they accuse you but intend to hunt must be proven......just saying

You might want to check on that. pretty sure most of the wildlife act is written on the presumption of guilt. In other words its written that the defendant has to prove thier innocence.
IE, caught with a deer and a thermal- if you cant prove it was not used illegally you are in the poo.

Originally Posted by mimms2

I f@cking hate drones with a passion.

Why??

I take mine hunting as I like making videos of my trips. So if I'm sitting on a mountain top and fly my drone up straight above me, high enough that you can't see or hear it...How could that bother you? As you would never even know its there. And all it does is give me some nice scenic footage, so how it could piss anyone off is beyond me!

Originally Posted by whanahuia

You might want to check on that. pretty sure most of the wildlife act is written on the presumption of guilt. In other words its written that the defendant has to prove thier innocence.
IE, caught with a deer and a thermal- if you cant prove it was not used illegally you are in the poo.

Sort of, but the law does not presume guilt.

I think that you are alluding to the principle of "strict liability".

In strict liability the Crown or claimant need only prove that the act or action occurred and that the defendant was responsible. Intention does not need to be proven. Strict liability is incorporated into Acts where offences are considered to be inherently dangerous.

Originally Posted by kukuwai

It pisses me right off !!!!

Here's a good one for you all.....

I rolled into a hut a few weeks back with my 13year old son, there were a couple of young 'hunters' from Nelson just packing up and a tramper in residence.

My young fella asks the 'hunters' if they have seen any deer. "Yea heaps, about 6 i think" was the reply. Given the area I think.....shit that's pretty good.

They carry on packing and I notice a thermal and a couple of spotlights, so does my boy.
We then went outside and my boy says to me.." i don't want to jump to any conclusions but did you see that thermal and spotlights?"

Yep i did, so decide to ask them a question....

"Those deer you seen, they didn't happen to be at night did they?"

"Shit yea bro, I've never actually shot a deer in the daytime"! Was the reply.

Unfucking believable !!! No private land for miles only national park !!!

Turns out from talking to the tramper who returned later in the day that they never actually went hunting in the day only at night !!

I find this sort of shit sooooo disappointing!!










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So all that gear was of no advantage to getting a deer as they didn't get one.

Originally Posted by Tahr

Sort of, but the law does not presume guilt.

I think that you are alluding to the principle of "strict liability".

In strict liability the Crown or claimant need only prove that the act or action occurred and that the defendant was responsible. Intention does not need to be proven. Strict liability is incorporated into Acts where offences are considered to be inherently dangerous.

Could you perhaps expand on the above please Tahr. Fish and Game are umbrellaed under the Conservation Act. Would the way in which the law is applied to F&G offences be an indication of how it might also be applied to DOC hunting offences ?. F&G seem to be able to get a prosecution for intent - possession of a rod or gun without a licence and no proof of illegal activity.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Could you perhaps expand on the above please Tahr. Fish and Game are umbrellaed under the Conservation Act. Would the way in which the law is applied to F&G offences be an indication of how it might also be applied to DOC hunting offences ?. F&G seem to be able to get a prosecution for intent - possession of a rod or gun without a licence and no proof of illegal activity.

Get your head around this little lot It goes through some of the important principles, but its damn complex.

https://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/asset.../2019/jsep.pdf

Looks to me that DG Conservation can make up his / her own rules but not the rest of us. @Tahr.
Can of worms alright.
The reference to "reckless" is interesting too.

https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....99/index2.html
Post #17 by headcase.

Originally Posted by Tahr

Get your head around this little lot It goes through some of the important principles, but its damn complex.

https://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/asset.../2019/jsep.pdf

So after a quick read it seems to me that thermals that are not attached to firearms or bows etc would be legal. They are visual aids / tools for locating wildlife the same as binoculars, spotting scopes and even glasses and their use does not cause disturbance or molest wildlife. They in themselves cannot be used for hunting. Drones however do have the potential to disturb or molest protected species.

I do wonder about the law around poaching, when unprotected game animals owned by the Crown are taken from private land. I always think that the offence should be around discharging a firearm on private land and not the animal.