Thread: Lead bullets and their risk to human health

Originally Posted by csmiffy

Bits of lead eating or swallowed ala kids carrying shotgun pellets in mouth and swallowing the odd one or a stray pellet from a duck will do bugger all.
Lead is relatively inert.
Breathe it in as fumes like the old school panel beaters or on a range, vastly different.
Asbestos is similar.
It's not poisonous as such (not that we eat it), but get it in your lungs and it's bad

Spot on. It's the fumes and very fine dust if you breath them. A few small particles eaten simply pass through your system and little is taken on by the body. If you eat contaminated meat daily that might change but occaoccassionally consumption is almost harmless.

It's just another excuse to attack us.

my understanding of lead exposure is that the worst of it comes from fumes, ie when melting lead but yes also can imagine a 22 indoor filling up with fumes ex the bore due to friction heat.
Z

Originally Posted by ZQLewis

my understanding of lead exposure is that the worst of it comes from fumes, ie when melting lead but yes also can imagine a 22 indoor filling up with fumes ex the bore due to friction heat.
Z

If you're getting vaporized lead fumes from melting lead you are heating it far too high. Melting point of lead is a lot lower than vapour point, 621.4F Vaporization happens above 900F.

There is more danger from the chemical dust from spent primers when decapping. Unless the non-toxic ones, they likely have Lead styfanate in them which produces lead oxide when detonated. Fine powdery stuff. You will also see it as white surface powder on old lead, oxidation or rust. Really really bad for you.

Swab tests will show the greatest dangerous levels of lead contamination from reloading are in the immediate bench and floor areas where you decap/deprime brass. Why you don't do it at the kitchen table! Also why you put additive in corncob media for tumbling. Not just for the shine James but to hold the dust down cause that is really poisonous shit to breathe or get on yer hands and into yer mouth. Elemental lead can reside in your muscle tissue, as a slug or bullet, most your life, decades, without raising your blood lead levels. But if you ingest lead oxide powders or vaporized lead its likely a very different and not happy outcome.

Originally Posted by Jhon

If you're getting vaporized lead fumes from melting lead you are heating it far too high. Melting point of lead is a lot lower than vapour point, 621.4F Vaporization happens above 900F.

There is more danger from the chemical dust from spent primers when decapping. Unless the non-toxic ones, they likely have Lead styfanate in them which produces lead oxide when detonated. Fine powdery stuff. You will also see it as white surface powder on old lead, oxidation or rust. Really really bad for you.

Swab tests will show the greatest dangerous levels of lead contamination from reloading are in the immediate bench and floor areas where you decap/deprime brass. Why you don't do it at the kitchen table! Also why you put additive in corncob media for tumbling. Not just for the shine James but to hold the dust down cause that is really poisonous shit to breathe or get on yer hands and into yer mouth. Elemental lead can reside in your muscle tissue, as a slug or bullet, most your life, decades, without raising your blood lead levels. But if you ingest lead oxide powders or vaporized lead its likely a very different and not happy outcome.

You can get lead material adhering to the fume/smoke on the way out. With melting metal, anything inhaled = bad...

And while copper in a small amount is an essential mineral, too much is insanely toxic. Check what copper swarf or pellets ground up for recycling did to Astrolabe reef after the RENA hit...

Originally Posted by No.3

For me, the potential exposure for lead in meat is what I would consider a lesser risk than doing things like changing out the target backer/bullet catchers on a range or indoor ranges where there is no passive dust control setup. Things like sandblasting or hot work on old fuel tanks from the leaded fuel days are a higher risk - even things like working on a 1980's Aussie-built classic car where the paint is being restored and leaded paint dust generated - or an older house for that matter are all higher risks than most shooting activities.

Casting lead sinkers is another activity with higher risk...

Things like leaded pipe fittings (older tapware) also carries a risk - as do council water tanks that still have the older white lead sealant in them.

From what I've seen in this in the past it's very difficult to quantify the risk to human health from lead contamination, as different animal species perform differently when impacted by bullets due to different amounts of bone and muscle in the areas where you are likely to aim as well as different calibers, ammunition types, speed of bullet (distance from shooter to target) etc etc. Also, acid levels in the stomach and time it takes for food to pass through the digestive track varies greatly from person to person. Not too sure about how much you can trust the 30cm from the wound for contamination as well, I've seen bits of jacket further away than that... I think it's one of those things that you need to be careful with and examine each piece you take off from around the impact area going out. I hear mince is one of the worst for contamination as well, as the temptation is to carve a bit closer to the hole to extend the mince amount. Likewise, carving bits off for the dogs can be a bit dodgy as well!

You more or less covered what I was going to say. My feeling is that while lead in hunted animals poses a risk, the severity of the risk and the likelihood of it significantly impacting anyone is overblown. Lead is dangerous, but not in the minor amounts it's going to be encountered in shot game meat - you might get a fragment, but you probably won't. If you do, is that fragment going to have an effect? Will the next 10 or 20? Probably not.

What is a fact is that in the EU and some US States where they've banned lead projectiles for hunting large game, they're having pretty significant issues getting guns to group based on their twist rate and the longer non-lead projectiles, and they're also seeing a lot more wounded animals.

Basically the effort in targeting lead projectiles is misdirected and misapplied. I suspect a big reason why lead ammunition is being "targeted" is because it's something that people can support banning without it having any impact on them. Basically it's a feel good measure.

At best it's a well-intended waste of time, and at worst it's another way of adding yet another restriction and financial cost in owning and using firearms.

Basically the effort in targeting lead projectiles is misdirected and misapplied. I suspect a big reason why lead ammunition is being "targeted" is because it's something that people can support banning without it having any impact on them. Basically it's a feel good measure.

The podcast has nothing to do with banning lead in ammo, but is more about making an informed choice as a hunter and consumer of wild meat

Originally Posted by NZBeeMan

The podcast has nothing to do with banning lead in ammo, but is more about making an informed choice as a hunter and consumer of wild meat

But that's the point.... If folks keep repeating,lead= bad. There will no longer BE a choice.

Try shooting lead free air rifles pellets. Virtually no accuracy at all!

Fast yes... but that's all

Talking about inhaling/ingesting bad fumes, that's where the term "mad as a hatter" came from. Hatters in the 18th century used mercury to assist in the felting process when making felt hats. Breath in any/too much mercury fumes and you go stark raving mad.

Funny I was eating a backsteak this week and had something stuck in my molar I couldn’t shift , eventually flicked it out with a toothpick and it was a piece of lead , did get me thinking then this thread pops up ….

I am unconvinced that lead is either dangerous or problematic for any of us. Lead pipes, lead soldered copper pipes, lead paint (even on houses and kids toys) and leaded petrol were everywhere in my younger years. As a teen I melted the lead from lead head nails and cast it in earth moulds and ate game killed with lead bullets and lead pellets and yet, here I still am with no lead induced ailments. Unless I am sorely mistaken, you fellahs are all still here as well.

Originally Posted by Rushy

I am unconvinced that lead is either dangerous or problematic for any of us. Lead pipes, lead soldered copper pipes, lead paint (even on houses and kids toys) and leaded petrol were everywhere in my younger years. As a teen I melted the lead from lead head nails and cast it in earth moulds and ate game killed with lead bullets and lead pellets and yet, here I still am with no lead induced ailments. Unless I am sorely mistaken, you fellahs are all still here as well.

But some of us do partake in a certain inoculant which has definite health benifits @Rushy.

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

But some of us do partake in a certain inoculant which has definite health benifits @Rushy.

The curative powers of the elixir of life are undeniable. Those of us in the know keep the faith daily.

Interesting podcast....what's particularly interesting is that given the evidence of how much a lead bullet "can" disintegrate as it travels through the game, both of the "scientists" and the presenter ignore the elephant in the room...which is that a copper projectile will likely behave in a similar manner and copper is a known carcinogen AND copper poisoning can be just as bad as lead poisoning so in conclusion........lots of things we do or use have risks attached to them...and it's part of being human to manage those as we see fit. Given the brevity of the piece, it was unsurprising that it focused on the "shock horror" aspect of their findings without really backing it up. For instance, the hunter they first mentioned, how much of his elevated lead levels were due to reloading? No idea, as they didn't mention if they asked him if he reloaded (or what he did for a living, a friend of mine is going through a lengthy lead flushing program to remove lead ingested as a painter, sanding old paint with deficient masks), so their example is purely anecdotal and not based in fact at all...but that seems to be par for the course from many "scientists" these days, ego gets in the way of factual reporting. Like others I've been exposed to lead in solid form through eating game birds and through other forms, still here, asymptomatic, my doc tells me I'm in rude health all things considered and my bloods are boringly and monotonously on the low side of average...go figure

Just all BS designed to ban hunting by the antics.

For starters we want to go hunting, it isn't a job.
Who eat's contaminated bruised meat?
Who is banning swimming, heaps drown every year?
Who knows a hunter who died of lead poisoning?
How many die on the roads, are cars banned?
How many deaths at work? Is work banned?

Are fishers being targeted as they handle lead sinkers?

They tried this sh1t in Victoria recently saying heaps of Eagles were dieing of lead poisoning. It was wind farms that were killing them. FMD. They never give up have zero proof, zero ethics.

They know SFA about lead poisoning and how it works. They are DHs
with an agenda.