Thread: National creates a Hunting and Fishing portfolio

Originally Posted by Danger Mouse

That's the point. Saying the majority comes from license holders is totally unfounded. I'm glad you agree with me.

https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....rmation-90049/

From 2005, there have been 11,701 firearms stolen over 4900 incidents where firearms have been reported stolen. Thats an average of 2.4 firearms per theft, 5.5 thefts a week.
Now unless its unlicensed persons reporting thefts to the Police, those 11000 weapons came from licensed owners.

Originally Posted by HG Man

https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....rmation-90049/

From 2005, there have been 11,701 firearms stolen over 4900 incidents where firearms have been reported stolen. Thats an average of 2.4 firearms per theft, 5.5 thefts a week.
Now unless its unlicensed persons reporting thefts to the Police, those 11000 weapons came from licensed owners.

.....but not the straw-purchasing the Police are currently touting.

Originally Posted by Nickoli

.....but not the straw-purchasing the Police are currently touting.

https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/def...1-22-34042.pdf

135 charges of supplying weapons to unlicensed people between 2014 - 2020

And thats only people charged.

Originally Posted by HG Man

https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/def...1-22-34042.pdf

135 charges of supplying weapons to unlicensed people between 2014 - 2020

And thats only people charged.

So a really small number of offenses compared to the number of licence holders - and the horrendous cost of a register, combined with security risk is justified....to be administered by the Police - who have a high number of less than squeaky clean officers themselves - the 150 or so convictions for officers over the same period are just the convictions....
(I'm not trying to draw a false equivalency here - just pointing out that you cannot tarnish a whole group by the actions of a few - and you'll not fix it with a proxy, expensive, dangerous & incomplete register).

Originally Posted by Nickoli

(I'm not trying to draw a false equivalency here - just pointing out that you cannot tarnish a whole group by the actions of a few - and you'll not fix it with a proxy, expensive, dangerous & incomplete register).

For sure, don't get me wrong, I object to the register as much as the next person, but we need to be accurate in our objections.

Originally Posted by HG Man

https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/def...1-22-34042.pdf

135 charges of supplying weapons to unlicensed people between 2014 - 2020

And thats only people charged.

When you look at the penalties, you can see why they get clean people to buy firearms for them. It's a slap on the wrist. Enforce the laws we already have? Oh hell no

Originally Posted by HG Man

https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....rmation-90049/

From 2005, there have been 11,701 firearms stolen over 4900 incidents where firearms have been reported stolen. Thats an average of 2.4 firearms per theft, 5.5 thefts a week.
Now unless its unlicensed persons reporting thefts to the Police, those 11000 weapons came from licensed owners.

so FIX the criminal aspect......burglers shot on sight would be a good start. drug dealers too...but shoot them twice just to make sure.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

so FIX the criminal aspect

I'm all for that, but lets not pretend that licensed owners aren't the ones supplying weapons to crims, either willingly or through theft.

Originally Posted by HG Man

I'm all for that, but lets not pretend that licensed owners aren't the ones supplying weapons to crims, either willingly or through theft.

OK so I will go along with you for a minute...just for shits n giggles

regestering guns will not stop that,any more than regestering my car will stop it being stolen and used for a ram raid.

my home security is already very good.
Im not going to sell gun to unlicenced person and risk everything for a few $$$$$
so thats me out of the equasion....so why do I have to do anything different?????
and how is me doing anything different going to hel psolve the issue????
you not having sex doesnt stop the neighbour getting pregnant.
I said FIX the criminal aspect...THAT INCLUDES any burglery and illegal sales..dont pretend it doesnt.
going back to underage cigarettes...... are you buying them and onselling to school kids???? hurts doesnt it???the implication YOU ARE GUILTY of doing so because someone else might be doing so...no more popping into corner dairy for you anymore,we must stamp this out somehow and you not being able to visit dairy to buy your smoke time steak n cheese pie is just collateral damage,its for the greater good after all. suck it up buttercup.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

OK so I will go along with you for a minute...just for shits n giggles

As I said earlier in this thread, I'm against the Register as much as anyone. I want Police to crack down on criminals and on the theft of firearms.

Nowhere have I said that this is a reason to bring in the Register, I'm not sure why you think I do?

Originally Posted by HG Man

I'm all for that, but lets not pretend that licensed owners aren't the ones supplying weapons to crims, either willingly or through theft.

To be guilty of 'supply', you have to have intent (to supply). Having your firearms stolen from your place of residence from compliant and correctly utilised security does not mean you have supplied them to criminals.

I've been party to several discussions of how firearms have been stolen from approved security arrangements, including racks, safes etc etc. It is pretty concerning how quickly and discretely a knowledgeable person can defeat most modern lock systems and window designs used in houses to gain unauthorised access, and once in the house you can pretty much work completely uninterrupted unless a resident comes home or there is some form of security system. It doesn't go much from there to defeating firearms security measures unfortunately...

Originally Posted by No.3

To be guilty of 'supply', you have to have intent (to supply). Having your firearms stolen from your place of residence from compliant and correctly utilised security does not mean you have supplied them to criminals.

I've been party to several discussions of how firearms have been stolen from approved security arrangements, including racks, safes etc etc. It is pretty concerning how quickly and discretely a knowledgeable person can defeat most modern lock systems and window designs used in houses to gain unauthorised access, and once in the house you can pretty much work completely uninterrupted unless a resident comes home or there is some form of security system. It doesn't go much from there to defeating firearms security measures unfortunately...

Thats for the crime of 'supply'. I'm clearly not using it in that context.

If its a case of breaking into safes and that kind of thing, then surely Police would be seeking to change the regs around what is considered legal? Or is it a case of you can't stop it?

Originally Posted by HG Man

Thats for the crime of 'supply'. I'm clearly not using it in that context.

If its a case of breaking into safes and that kind of thing, then surely Police would be seeking to change the regs around what is considered legal? Or is it a case of you can't stop it?

Christ you're boring. Welcome to my ignore list.