Thread: Northland deer (again)

Predator Free 2050 is a pipe dream. We all know that.

Originally Posted by MB

Predator Free 2050 is a pipe dream. We all know that.

Agreed. It's a pipe dream. But aspirational too. Its motivated an extraordinary number of people to make a huge effort. People who otherwise would never go into the trees. Its motivated thousands of elderly into exercise. It's advanced pest reduction technology and approaches. It's got people talking and thinking about pests. And killed a few zillion pests too. So far I think that it's been a stunning success.

Originally Posted by Tahr

Agreed. It's a pipe dream. But aspirational too. Its motivated an extraordinary number of people to make a huge effort. People who otherwise would never go into the trees. Its motivated thousands of elderly into exercise. It's advanced pest reduction technology and approaches. It's got people talking and thinking about pests. And killed a few zillion pests too. So far I think that it's been a stunning success.

Dead right Tahr.
I have a bit to do with the Sika Foundation Whio project.
Newby people come along with a friend and after a day on a trap line they are hooked.
And they often come from circles which wouldn't usually come across such projects.
Next thing their mates are coming too.

Originally Posted by Tahr

Agreed. It's a pipe dream. But aspirational too. Its motivated an extraordinary number of people to make a huge effort. People who otherwise would never go into the trees. Its motivated thousands of elderly into exercise. It's advanced pest reduction technology and approaches. It's got people talking and thinking about pests. And killed a few zillion pests too. So far I think that it's been a stunning success.

My main issue is a goal has to be measurable , and obtainable or it will stop being a goal and start becoming an anchor......this pest free is a goal that can be measured....success will mean NO pests at all - total eradication....however it is unobtainable....the problem here is wnow, no matter what success they have at reducing pest populations, they will be seen to have failed.

Dont get me wrong, I think the reductionand management of pests needs to be done, and what they are doing to achieve this in most cases is working, but at some point they will start to question what else they have to do to achieve their goals.....

Originally Posted by Tahr

Agreed. It's a pipe dream. But aspirational too. Its motivated an extraordinary number of people to make a huge effort. People who otherwise would never go into the trees. Its motivated thousands of elderly into exercise. It's advanced pest reduction technology and approaches. It's got people talking and thinking about pests. And killed a few zillion pests too. So far I think that it's been a stunning success.

Well if I'm right the 2050 predator free isn't trapping only and involve bombing forest with the 1080 shit, this is far from my definition of a stunning success...

Originally Posted by tibo

Well if I'm right the 2050 predator free isn't trapping only and involve bombing forest with the 1080 shit, this is far from my definition of a stunning success...

It's a tool. Part of the mix. Useful in certain contexts like broad acre control, and the most successful with some pests - viz wallaby. In some contexts not so much. Hopefully in time it will be replaced with something more acceptable. Im not anti 1080 - but am anti its inappropriate use (which is getting less) - especially without deer repellent in the mix.

By 2025 regardless of the goal not having been achieved (an impossible goal) I think the new culture of bashing pests with every tool available and ordinary people taking responsibility ought to be well embedded and the struggle will have a life of its own. That will be a big positive.

Originally Posted by Tahr

Agreed. It's a pipe dream. But aspirational too. Its motivated an extraordinary number of people to make a huge effort. People who otherwise would never go into the trees. Its motivated thousands of elderly into exercise. It's advanced pest reduction technology and approaches. It's got people talking and thinking about pests. And killed a few zillion pests too. So far I think that it's been a stunning success.

But has it really contributed meaningfully to threatened species recovery and sustainability? Even setting aside the volunteer effort in places like Miramar (which arguably isn't transferrable) I cant help think the money spent there would be better applied in habitats where those species more naturally belong? And I have a concern at the potential affects of neglect where ( I think) it matters because people think they are making a difference, when actually they may not be? Just my view, of course.

Originally Posted by Maxx

But has it really contributed meaningfully to threatened species recovery and sustainability? Even setting aside the volunteer effort in places like Miramar (which arguably isn't transferrable) I cant help think the money spent there would be better applied in habitats where those species more naturally belong? And I have a concern at the potential affects of neglect where ( I think) it matters because people think they are making a difference, when actually they may not be? Just my view, of course.

Yes it does make a difference.

Originally Posted by MB

Predator Free 2050 is a pipe dream. We all know that.

Deer aren't predators though, pests in some eyes but not predators

Originally Posted by imaca

Deer aren't predators though

I don't think anyone suggested they were???

Originally Posted by MB

I don't think anyone suggested they were???

Its called predator free NZ but apparently includes possums, rabbits, goats and deer. While these are pests, they are not predators (despite DoCs photoshopping a possum with feathers in its mouth.....)

There are only two ways I can see that would actually get us to the end goal....and both are cases of cure is worse than the disease.

1) Bio control- Modifying a disease or similar to target a specific species. Sounds promising ....until you put thought into it....This is how we got mustilids (released to hunt rabbits which were their natural prey in the homeland - but quickly found our natives easier to catch and eat...) and how we nearly got mountain lions to control deer (until a local pointed out deer run faster than sheep and mountain lions have a hankering for easy mutton too...)
The real big problem with this genetic control however is much scarier than a new import. The hard part is getting a disease or similar to target a specific species such as possums. BUT once this is done, it is much much easier to alter it to target something else.....deer goats etc...now if it gets into the wrong hands you can add people to that list and you have changed a biological control into a WMD....And no one wants this.

2) total reset / clean slate- wipe out every living thing in an area the start again with a clean slate reintroducing the native flora and fauna making sure the undesirables stay out but lets face it, what we have now is already better than that solution......even with the pests...

What does really get my goat though is we have Tahr listed as a pest by the likes of twigs n tweets, but this population is probably the only healthy population of tahr left in the world.....If we get rid of them, they will likely be an endangered species as their current original population is in decline. Similar with possums....They are protected in Aussie....if Ozzie really wants them, they should come and get some- our population is healthy and thriving......