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Thread: The NZ balloting system?

  1. #1
    Member summitdogracing's Avatar
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    The NZ balloting system?

    To that end about public land and free range animals, I am still a bit unclear about the balloting. As I understand it, if one receives a ballot one then has access to hunt a region that is restricted as to the number of hunters allowed in that area. The locals still have to hike it in whereas foreigners can chopper in, which pisses of many of the local hunters.

    So far correct?

    Where are these balloted regions? Is it only during the roar? Is it only for stag? Why the balloting system? Too many hunters and too many accidents? Are the beasts really so much better there?

    Here in the US many states have a lottery system for big game but in large part to manage the number of animals possibly being taken in a given season. As I understand it, the NZ Government views the Red Stag largely as a vermin and has periodic "1840" poison drops. I am trying to wrap my mind around some sense of conservation by the government while a plan for partial eradication is in place.

    Thanks.

    Scotty.


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  2. #2
    Almost literate. veitnamcam's Avatar
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    Its 1080 poison.
    Ballots are for lots of areas from the far north to the far south for varing species.
    I am not actually sure what gets an area "balloted" but someone will know on here.

    I would Advise against a Wapity ballot, your pure Elk are far superior.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by summitdogracing View Post
    Where are these balloted regions? Is it only during the roar? Is it only for stag? Why the balloting system? Too many hunters and too many accidents? Are the beasts really so much better there?

    Thanks.

    Scotty.


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    Woodhill is a balloted area. The deer herd is a 'captive' one ie..........it is separated from being 'replenished' from other areas by its geographical location on a large peninsular. By running balloted hunts, it allows the herd to be managed for sustainability. Ballots also allow safety conditions to be imposed and enforced as well as limitations on what may be taken as part of the herd management. All the fees for the ballot are put back into herd management as well as providing the opportunity for TAKH ( Take a Kid Hunting)

    Depending on the 'Kill returns', extra doe permits may be issued to keep the balance between male/females. ( Its not a 'Bucks' only system and eradication is not the aim)

    The area the herd is located in is not ideal for trophies due to the type of feed available (pine forest) and the ballot enables us to keep deer numbers at a sustainable level taking into account the feed available.

    (note: We have never had a firearms related hunting accident although we have had a couple of lost hunters)

    Allgood
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  4. #4
    Member Uplandstalker's Avatar
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    There is very little balloted publish land in NZ, especially outside of South Westland and the Wapiti Area of Fiordland - both of which are only balloted during the Roar(or Tahr rut for South Westland/Haast).

    The remaining hunt-able public land is free access and regardless of the origin on the hunter, local or foreign, either can walk or fly (provide landing permits are able to be sort of the helicopter operators - not an issue in most areas).

    Are the animals any better in the balloted areas? I'm not sure. There are plenty of great wild stags all over the place and many of these are a lot closer to the road and road ends than many think.

    I do all my hunting on public land, get a permit every 3 months and go where I want, when I want.

  5. #5
    Almost literate. veitnamcam's Avatar
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    Also a visitor may fly in and land with certain operators where it is illegal for us to be flown into,We have to walk.

    This pisses people off.
    "Hunting and fishing" fucking over licenced firearms owners since ages ago.

  6. #6
    Member stretch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by veitnamcam View Post
    Also a visitor may fly in and land with certain operators where it is illegal for us to be flown into,We have to walk.

    This pisses people off.
    Where the fuck?!?

  7. #7
    Almost literate. veitnamcam's Avatar
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    Wilderness areas may be flown into and landed on by varios AATH outfitters but not by us.
    So you can walk for days into some of our most remote country in accessable by air plan a stalk on a trophy bull and have a chopper drop some rich fat fuck on a ridge and heard the animals towards him to shoot at his leisure.
    Or maybe that loophole has been closed now. I sure hope so.

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  8. #8
    Member stretch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by veitnamcam View Post
    Wilderness areas may be flown into and landed on by varios AATH outfitters but not by us.
    By "us" do you mean heli operators WITHOUT an AATH concession/permit? Not trying to be a dick, I just don't know how this form of "hunting" works.

    http://www.doc.govt.nz/get-involved/...rophy-hunting/

  9. #9
    Almost literate. veitnamcam's Avatar
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    Us in this context means ethical hunters.
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  10. #10
    Member GravelBen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stretch View Post
    By "us" do you mean heli operators WITHOUT an AATH concession/permit? Not trying to be a dick, I just don't know how this form of "hunting" works.

    Aerially-assisted trophy hunting (AATH): Apply for permits
    Huh, I see they show the Olivine Wilderness Area as a AATH concession area. Directly contradicting the National Parks Act and Mt Aspiring National Park management plan. Bastards.
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  11. #11
    Member summitdogracing's Avatar
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    Vietnamcam,

    Is it your impression that the NZ hunters disfavor the foreign hunters using choppers to get into remote areas, foreigners getting ballots, or just foreign hunters in general?

    In hunting either Tahr or Chamois are the my typically found in fairly remote places that require a several day hike?

    I could have sworn I watched a program in YouTube where a Kiwi choppered in a massive tent, to include an iron wood burning stove for a Tahr hunt with just his Kiwi mate. Would that have been against the regulations prohibiting locals from being dropped into a site?


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  12. #12
    Member stug's Avatar
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    For tahr there is a ballot each year where you can access the blocks by chopper, that you normally aren't allowed to fly in to ( you can only use the chopper to fly to the designated campsite). Anyone is allowed to put in for these blocks. These are not the only places you can hunt tahr.
    There are quite a few places where you can hunt tahr right by the road that you can drive a 2wd along. You might not get a big 12" plus bull there, but you will see and shoot tahr. Also lots/even more places where you can access tahr hunting with a one day walk. Also huts that you can fly into year around. Chamois hunting is similar.
    Kiwi hunters get pissed off with AATH (Aerially assisted trophy hunting) where hunters(?) are allowed to hound/herd tahr from a helicopter and shoot them. The AATH permit gives the guide helicopter access to areas normal kiwi hunters cannot get helicopter access to.
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  13. #13
    Almost literate. veitnamcam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by summitdogracing View Post
    Vietnamcam,

    Is it your impression that the NZ hunters disfavor the foreign hunters using choppers to get into remote areas, foreigners getting ballots, or just foreign hunters in general?

    In hunting either Tahr or Chamois are the my typically found in fairly remote places that require a several day hike?

    I could have sworn I watched a program in YouTube where a Kiwi choppered in a massive tent, to include an iron wood burning stove for a Tahr hunt with just his Kiwi mate. Would that have been against the regulations prohibiting locals from being dropped into a site?


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    Answered by stug above. We dont dislike foreign hunters we dislike AATH.

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  14. #14
    Member summitdogracing's Avatar
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    Stug's comment bought a question to mind. Do the tahr and chamois tend to live in the same regions or are they geographically separated by mountain ranges?

    I appreciate your patience with my questions.

    Scotty


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  15. #15
    R93
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    Chamois have a range that includes the expanse of the southern alps. Thar occupy the same areas but limited from as far south as the Arawhata to north of the Hokitika river.
    Thar as a rule thar will live at higher elevations.

    The problem is NZ hunters do not participate in AATH due to ethics.

    It is an activity setup to support foreign hunters with money to take our game animals with assistance from a helicopter.
    These people are allowed to land and hunt areas we as kiwis cannot.
    If you come across a Himalayan Thar or Chamois mount in your country take a look at the person who took it.
    You will be able to make your own assumption if they climbed some hard country to take it or shot it with the assistance of a machine.
    I would say 99.99 percent of thar mounts in the US shot in NZ, were shot with a helicopter involved.


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    Last edited by R93; 16-01-2016 at 02:48 PM.
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