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Hi there all
Just joined up and this is my first post.Wondering what the situation is with the mainland herd? I would like to return to Stewart Island before long but I would be keen to have a crack at the mainland herd if it's still viable.Appreciate any feedback.Thanks
No offense but leave them alone.
The herd is in peril. A lot of work by people trying to protect it is just going to waste at the moment.
They took a hammering a couple years ago with poison and are way down in numbers.
Helihunting them is not helping either.
Heard of a group of aussies that shot half a dozen just recently. Nothing of note.
Just had to shoot something.
They should ban all hunting of them for a while if the herd is ever to recover properly imo.
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That is terrible news indeed.I did pick up on the fact that the mainland herd was threatened,hence my inquiry.I can always go to Stewy and try my luck there.Didn't think i would ever go back. Thanks R93.
You know, instead of wasting our excess energy as a foum, sometimes bickering, some times on mad projects [ well thats ok really] and sometimes just complaining about shit. [ I certainly am not talking about the above post or the original poster ,just the above post got me thinking]Quote:
Originally Posted by R93
Why don't we as a collective adopt this Mainland Whitetail herd and see if we can't do something about, firstly it's preservation and secondly it's growth.
Just throwing it out there, bit of brainstorming by people could surely come up with a plan that could see us leading the way to doing something special
There are some pretty smart and savvy people on here and if the rest of us could lend support surely we could achieve something really positive.
Any campain for want of a better word would need led by some one , yes, however the right person backed by a mandate from the folk on here could surely command a fairly loud voice .There are people on here from all walks of life that could and can if they so chose make times tough for those who would oppose such a preservation both privately and in the media.
I know it been done before, helihunting, 1080, etc etc. these though all have there champions, even on here.
However, pick a winner, what is not to like about the preservation of a Whitetail deer herd.
Think, if we could tap into a ground swell of american support, possibilities are massive.
There is a group of people working hard behind the scenes for the herd.
I don't think they are public and doubt they want to be. I will try and find out more about it. Hopefully we on the forum that want too, can contribute in a significant way.
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I guessed there probably was, however perhaps public support, and alot of it, my well be an advantage in the right place of course.
The loud support of a sector of American public for what is practically an American Icon, could be a postive advantage as well.
Once again , if used correctly.
Good idea using the yanks.
I am sure the people involved are trying to get the herd listed as a special interest.
I would like to see the same happen with the Wapiti herd.
But we all know what DOC are like.
I doubt I will ever hunt either herd unless there is a miraculous recovery in their gene pool.
Seen enough of both when I was working in machines but compared to the rest of the deer species we have in NZ they are the worse off.
Hope it can change one day.
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All the good wap genes are in paddocks and could be re released as originally intended.
Whitetail could be imported to improve the Gene pool.
Have to glue some feathers on the deer, DOC mght be interested then?Quote:
Originally Posted by R93
The Wakatipu herd has good genes.
One of my best mates shot one 3 or 4 yrs ago any N American would be proud of.
Think it's number 3 or 4 in NZ and the best 8pt buck shot to date.
The 2 or 3 above it are at least 10 pointers and from the same herd. A few rumours surround one or 2 of them and how they were taken.
Hopefully we can get to a point one day to change certain things in how we manage our game animals in NZ. Doc and people educated by them are extemely deluded and can't see that things will never be able to go back to what it was like before they were introduced.
Instead of embracing the potential of our game animals they waste tons of the tax payers money trying to flog a dead horse imo.
The Wapiti are a bit different in that they will always have their gene pool compromised by reds. The bush to tussock/flats ratio in the region will ensure that too many red deer will survive any effort to reduce them to a point where the Waps will come back to where they were after initial release.
Back when venison was in full swing well over 5000 deer were shot out of the Haast region alone, every year, year after year.
Hell, we were getting 2500 a year not that long ago and that was on a quota type system.
That to me is an indication on how resilient reds are once established.
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Yes we would never get back to pure blood in the wild but with current control of red type animals and release of high percentage wap type animals the situation would improve no doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by R93
I feel that it would only be a short term fix as the red is far more aggressive! Pushing the bull Waps off of the hinds.Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
With the white tail this is very interesting are there any photos of those heads?
The best I've seen was in the cover of Rod and Rifle back around 94/95 with a head taken from the Lords block.
Always wondered if we could compete with what you get in America.
For a period of time it would I spose.Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
Certainly worth the effort and I applaud the Wapiti foundations efforts to date and long may they continue.
I would love to take a 50 + inch bull in fiordland but my chances of ever doing so would be as likely as me winning lotto. I love the country and it's challenges but I personally rather leave them alone and chase reds.
The whitetail has the potential to be restored to a healthy herd again.
It is unique and not under threat from any other species but us.
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There are no pure Waps left in the park.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7mmwsm
Pure blood would have to be introduced in order to change that.
As Cam said there are a number sitting on a farm that were intended for release years ago.
It needs to happen if the herd is ever to be at its former glory.
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It's great to see prople taking an interest in Wakatipu White Tailed herd viability and wanting to do something positive to help them out. Kaylyn McBrearty is undertaking a PhD study investigating what is happening with the Wakatipu White Tailed herd. If anyone is keen to help, then the place to start would be to see if Kaylyn needs a hand. Check out her Facebook page White tailed Deer Research in NZ
I know her pretty well as she is the partner of one of my best mates. Very smart lady.
I was going to have a chat with her and her next time she thrashed me at a game of pool and see if she minded if I mentioned her study on the forum. But it is done now 😆
She is a mad keen hunter as well.
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Kaylyn gave a great presentation at our nzda branch recently, very informative. It could or even should be a herd that the GAC considers for a herd of special but someone needs to do the leg work to get it put forward.
Ok. Yup. I am no expert by any means regarding this topic but I know some people that I consider to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7mmwsm
I don't think there is a problem regarding genetics.
They just want to save and improve the herds situation.
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Get some into the Kawekas :)
There were Tahr in the tararuas until recently, all shot out by authorities.
Kaylyn McBrearty is currently making informal discussions with all major hunting organisations and interests to nominate the Wakatipu Whitetail herd as a herd of special interest (HOSI).
Most hunting interests are very supportive. If large numbers of immature animals continue to be shot there will not be a resource for any hunting in the future, we also need to ensure that future pest control operations do not impact this herd again. R93 is correct there is nothing wrong with the genetics of this herd, a few very large whitetail have been taken in recent years, however most bucks are dead before they are fully mature.
White-tailed Deer Research in New Zealand is also going to run some training seminars to help hunters age whitetail in the field, hopefully in time this herds situation will improve and can be better appreciated by New Zealanders. Currently the herd is in a very bad state, there could very easily be less than 500 animals, please keep this in mind, if you are after meat go for fallow or reds.
Good luck Kaylyn.
Look where the Manawatu sambar was 30 years ago, I don't see how a 10-20 year break won't see the whitetail back to a viable population in the Whakatipu.
As for the Wapiti, VC and R93 are right. We have the pure imported genetics available to improve the herd quicker than selection on the current wild genetics, why wouldn't you do a release program in conjunction with the aerial programme targeting reds? Defies belief
Might be hunting with a wap foundation member soon. He explained a few things as to the reason why not to me last year.
I will get him to remind me so I can pass it on.
Stagasorous might know first hand.
Iirc it's all doc blocking any progress apart from red culls.
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Who says they havnt already!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointer
My understanding is that the govt. blocked any chance of that with their laws on releasing pest animals, and doc happily plays that card every time it's suggested
Which is why all deer/pigs/tahr/cham need to be listed as Game rather than pests.
That will only happen if the government sees a dollar in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
I have heard the rumours of new wap blood in the park but talking to people who frequent the area daily they have yet to see it.
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And any clandestine releases won't make a drop in the gene pool. It has to be a large scale release of pure bulls and cows followed by successive releases over time, supplemented by aerial culling of red type animals. A few wap bulls snuck over the fence won't do it