Thread: A question for the doubters

Originally Posted by whanahuia

Yeah something is up with the pictured comparisons, that lets me think its not giving us a true indicator. Im not a physicist, and maybe i'm missing something?Its quite possible, this isn't things i think about every day. To my Mind the heavier projectile at same speed should have more kinetic energy and more momentum. yet the final wound channel looks similar and the penetration of the heavier projectile was less.
So what that leads me to beleive; is that maybe the elasticity of the ballistic material is covering up some info, and that the heavier projectile is transferring its energy more efficiently.

What other model would you use other than gelatin?

Observed actual results in animals over large sample sizes would be best no doubt but not terribly practical

Gel tests in 10% gel have been shown to match penetration in tissue very well. This indicates that the rate of energy deposition is similar and the density of gel closely matches the "average" density of bodies. Fackler et al 1984, Mabbot et al 2015, etc. It is the standard used by anyone seriously working in the field.


Predictive/speculative theoretical approaches based on secondary projectile characteristics (energy) don't seem to hold up in observed data. Since the tissue we are largely shooting into (lungs and muscle) is also elastic (like gel), it appears that a lot of energy is dissipated through the elastic deformation of the temporary cavity, and the additional contribution of that to immediate incapacitation or death is small. Certainly it happens - the temporary cavity is observable and measurable - and bullets with more energy seem to create a larger temporary cavity.



The questions are:

What size of permanent wound is required in [animal] in most circumstances [tailored to meet user requirements], to incapacitate or kill within [timeframes satisfactory to the user]?
Does [cartridge and bullet selection] have the ability to create a wound of that specification within [users likely impact velocity window]?


Those shooting .223s with heavy bullets mostly seem satisfied that the data they have suggest the answer to question 2 is yes.

There appears to be another group that speculates that the answer to question 2 is no.