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Questions for more learned hunters than I ......
If a stag has no Bey or Trey tines, or poor ones eg. nubs, but has tops say 2 or 3, will he ever grow the missing tines??, if not, should he be removed from the pop due to this defect, if it is indeed a defect.
My reason for asking is before lockdown I knocked over a young 8 with quite long antler length, but with no treys and small tops, he was a huge animal body wise and I wonder if I should’ve left him ??
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I would have shot him as a cull, I don't think he was going to become much of a stag.
If they dont grow bey tines they never will. Not sure on the trez tines though
Hamish
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that's a cool head there mate!
Thank you for taking him out of the gene pool. Cool stag, probably some cool memories of your hunt. But he wasn't gonna get any better, or his progeny.
well one thing I do KNOW for certain.....that particular stag WILL NEVER grow bigger antlers than it has now...100% certain of it.....hope the venison tasted good,enjoy it and hang the head with pride in garage to remind you of the hunt...how close down are his corenets??? that seems to be the indicator of age......
Sorry Hamish, this is incorrect. Bez tines are the last of the primary tines to truly develop in the formation of antler. Bez tines can come & go depending on how the animal has conditioned itself during the growth period, environment plays a big part. Yes genetics does have an influence too and someone with better knowledge than me might contribute to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by HNTMAD
I know of one case where a deer farmer culled out his velvet stags that grew bez, so he had a better cut of velvet. He was shocked when some of his "best stags" grew bez the next year.
Thanks all .... he wasn’t very old maybe 4years??. Where he came from has potential to produce some good heads ..... I think??. Last roar a beautiful even 16 came outta there so here’s hoping for more of that and less of the one I got hahaha.
Cheers
Yeap hes better off out of it, is a couple years old and not much going for him.good freezer filler
That’s pretty interesting Mathias cheers, would like to know more about antler development and what’s cull material, internet has info but would rather hear from those that have been in the industry or had expierience with herd improvement
That is a crap arse head and would never be any good.
A young stag that is going to be good later on will always have a good foundation made up of width, good brow, bey and trey. The tops need more age to grow out but a good older stag will still have had shape in the tops when young, normally being an eight pointer.
A spiker that is thick and long with little brows is likely to be very good in the future.
Regarding the post by Mathias, I would say that some lines of deer, notably the Rakaia herd lack Beys. When these deer have been crossed with lines that have good beys there can be some odd outcomes - the deer being heterozygous for the trait, meaning that the DNA copies do not match and then environmental factors can effect how a trait is displayed. In the same way that a 'good year' results in more points as well as bigger heads.
Spot on. Yeap most the rakaia heads I've seen of mates etc have been missing bez tines. The one I shot up wilberforce was missing them too
I think culling for bezs is a bit dumb. As in some areas there just aren't many that have good bezs. So in that case if the animals has poor bezs or trezs but and good everything else I'd find it hard to kill him as a "cull" almost every massive stag was what lots would call a "scrubber" at some point. I would only cull now on mature animals that are never going to be amazing ie very large 10s or 8s etc. More young animals I don't feel I have the expertise as I don't know what's typical for the area. I'm working on a basis of for stags I will only take animals I think are a new PB or are clearly mature or deformed. I would likely make the same decision on a stag like that though near the end of a trip and I had plenty of freezer space.
Again very interesting thanks .....
Yeah that was pretty much the decision I made Stocky, he was fat and gave 6 families plenty of meat right before lockdown, damn near killed me but got everything boned out and carried out in 2 trips
The stag we are discussing is narrow and will never have width. He has no treys, so another x beside his name. He is a cull. He also has a Sika shape which could be from Sika in the English Parks from whence his forebears came.The 'Windsor throwback' occurs in deer descended from Windsor Great Park stock which had Wapiti introduced to it. As far as culling on Beys, I agree that if everything else is good then they can be overlooked, but a head needs to have width and good treys as well as brows and topsQuote:
Originally Posted by Stocky
My earlier post was a bit hasty, not intended to gun Hamish & his statement down.
What I mean to point out is that the bez is the last to develop and first to go depending on various factors.
Take a look at NZ Hunter show this week. Emil's dads stag had just about lost its bez, due to age. In its prime it would a boasted nice bez tines and if that animal had lived another year or two, all trace could have vanished.
Yes the Rakaia herd has a case of have none, got one or both bez, seen it all. Its believed by knowledgable people that one of the hinds in the release carried this trait of bez irregularity. @Moa Hunter touches on the case of genetic mix with the likes of the Stoke Park breeding that makes up the Rakaia herd.
The farmer I quoted, culling his velveters, had a pure Rakaia sire stag, aerial captured from the Rakaia catchment. He grew bez, he was on primo tucker [emoji16]
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It's ok, I have picked up my bottom lip.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathias
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up on local station that has arguably some of the best deer genetics in the world......and some truely MASSIVE ugly christmas tree heads....its interesting as heck to watch development of stags through the years...some what would be spikers have 15-20points in allsorts of angles with buggerall size anywhere...next year they slightly larger but still all crazy in shape...next year better still andso on UNTILL hormones settle down,then they show true potential and shape and form becomes more normal....the symetry comes in then if its going to at all.....on other farms nearby the stags dont have the mass but are beautifully symetrical
so first farm would be desired by SCI buyers the 2nd by Douglas scoring buyers if going into canned hunting...where a lot have been in last few years.
look up internet and you will find cast antlers from same stag each year......very interesting to see improvement then decline.
that stag of Emils Dads was a beauty...those outward top tines were solid and head full of character.....great episode.
Emails dads stag scored 326 DS from memory which is pretty decent for what they class a 10 pointer. I think the stag in question at the start of the thread was better taken out than left in the herd.
I said I would cull that animal. Im just not usually out to cull animals so it would have to tie in to getting of the hill or the end of a hunt. No point ending a trip early just to cull a stag. Very interesting re Sika you free for a call tomorrow Garth. Trying to finish up an article tonight but be good for a catch up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moa Hunter
