Thread: Resurgence of interest in the old "Three Oh"?

This thread made me dig out my 1942 Long Branch ‘3-oh’ that had been sporterised and barrel shortened and what looks like a home made foresight, the rear is still has the two position battlesight.

Forgotten it has the two groove rifling (in average condition)

Were many two grooves made and what accuracy did they have?

Originally Posted by Finnwolf

This thread made me dig out my 1942 Long Branch ‘3-oh’ that had been sporterised and barrel shortened and what looks like a home made foresight, the rear is still has the two position battlesight.

Forgotten it has the two groove rifling (in average condition) Were many two grooves made and what accuracy did they have?

@grandpamac

Originally Posted by Finnwolf

This thread made me dig out my 1942 Long Branch ‘3-oh’ that had been sporterised and barrel shortened and what looks like a home made foresight, the rear is still has the two position battlesight.

Forgotten it has the two groove rifling (in average condition)

Were many two grooves made and what accuracy did they have?

No clue how many were made but from what I have read it was faster and easier to produce and apparently had minimal effects on accuracy (they still had to pass the same tests). But it must have made some difference because they went back to 6 groove eventually. Someone else will probably have real experience and advice on this

Great thread - the 3 O is such a part of hunting history in NZ great to see such enthusiasm for the old rifles.

When my Dad died I ended up with his sporterized SMLE which he did a lot of hunting with in the 1950's to 1960's in Canterbury where he had access to a property in Lees Valley I think the owner of the property's name was Less Burnett. Dad used to reckon that in summer he would hop on his motor bike after knocking off work and ride up to the valley with the rifle over his back and reckon he could have a deer well before dark. It had a parker hale aperture site adjustable for windage and elevation, initially he shot it right hand, but when that eye weakened he swapped over and shot it left hand - something the feels so uncomfortable to me. Eventually he put a 4x Nikko Sterling scope on it that I gave him but I can't remember if he went back to shooting with his right eye. He could shoot pretty well with it - I can remember him knocking goats off a bluff up behind the bach shooting off his knees would have been 1970's - I have since ranged these at 400m+ he said he was taught to shoot when he had to do compulsory military training in the 1950's after leaving school.

It spent along time in the ceiling space above their garage - when I got the rifle I could see a long dark patch half way down the barrel and no amount of cleaning made any difference took it to the range and could hardly hit a A4 sheet of paper at 50m.

It would be cool to get the old cannon shooting again - could anyone suggest the best place to look at picking up a replacement barrel ?

Originally Posted by AMac

Great thread - the 3 O is such a part of hunting history in NZ great to see such enthusiasm for the old rifles.

When my Dad died I ended up with his sporterized SMLE which he did a lot of hunting with in the 1950's to 1960's in Canterbury where he had access to a property in Lees Valley I think the owner of the property's name was Less Burnett. Dad used to reckon that in summer he would hop on his motor bike after knocking off work and ride up to the valley with the rifle over his back and reckon he could have a deer well before dark. It had a parker hale aperture site adjustable for windage and elevation, initially he shot it right hand, but when that eye weakened he swapped over and shot it left hand - something the feels so uncomfortable to me. Eventually he put a 4x Nikko Sterling scope on it that I gave him but I can't remember if he went back to shooting with his right eye. He could shoot pretty well with it - I can remember him knocking goats off a bluff up behind the bach shooting off his knees would have been 1970's - I have since ranged these at 400m+ he said he was taught to shoot when he had to do compulsory military training in the 1950's after leaving school.

It spent along time in the ceiling space above their garage - when I got the rifle I could see a long dark patch half way down the barrel and no amount of cleaning made any difference took it to the range and could hardly hit a A4 sheet of paper at 50m.

It would be cool to get the old cannon shooting again - could anyone suggest the best place to look at picking up a replacement barrel ?

Has it got a mid-barrel bulge? You'd feel the different resistance to a brush as you push/pull it through. The dark section of the bore is usually caused by pitting, not bulging.

Before doing anything extreme to the barrel, don't write the bore off until you shoot good ammunition through it, not some old milsurp. Rifles usually age well but their ammunition less so. Also, the dark middle of the bore may have been present even when the rifle was a tack driver, it does not happen overnight even if the rifle lies unloved for 20 years.

I'd happily sell you a used replacement barrel, but ... caveat emptor ... will it shoot any better? Don't buy a car or a milsurp barrel from a friend. To get a dark old milsurp bore shooting better, first look into lead lapping.

Article: "Lapping a Rifle Barrel", Shooting Times, September 23, 2010.

Originally Posted by Cordite

Has it got a mid-barrel bulge? You'd feel the different resistance to a brush as you push/pull it through. The dark section of the bore is usually caused by pitting, not bulging.

Before doing anything extreme to the barrel, don't write the bore off until you shoot good ammunition through it, not some old milsurp. Rifles usually age well but their ammunition less so. Also, the dark middle of the bore may have been present even when the rifle was a tack driver, it does not happen overnight even if the rifle lies unloved for 20 years.

I'd happily sell you a used replacement barrel, but ... caveat emptor ... will it shoot any better? Don't buy a car or a milsurp barrel from a friend. To get a dark old milsurp bore shooting better, first look into lead lapping.

Article: "Lapping a Rifle Barrel", Shooting Times, September 23, 2010.

Thanks Cordite - no bulge its pitting I think. Used modern ammo not milsurp. Lapping would seem a good step unfortunately living in a town house I am not really set up for that sort of thing. Maybe a clean with an abrasive of some sought - its it JB paste that is talked about when the topic of cleaning up barrels comes up? Also on reflection I have only ever viewed the barrel as being the problem - never looked at the scope or mounts which could be the issue just as easily. Might give her another clean, pop a better scope on her grab 20 rounds of new ammo and have another try next time I am at the range.

It would be sweet to get it shooting again, I could keep it at the bach that Dad built 1972 and maybe one day nail one of the deer that are coming through these days during winter ! Neighbour rang Thursday to say they just arrived into the bay and found their lawn is covered in hoof marks like a cattle yard and all the agapanthus eaten down to stubs. Reckon there is a herd of them around.

Cheers

AMac

Originally Posted by hamish9701

No clue how many were made but from what I have read it was faster and easier to produce and apparently had minimal effects on accuracy (they still had to pass the same tests). But it must have made some difference because they went back to 6 groove eventually. Someone else will probably have real experience and advice on this

Large quantities. Most of the savage no4s we’re 2 groovers. I have found that there is very little difference in accuracy out to about 500yds. There was a reasonable number of savage mk1*s which ended up in NZ service. The first ones delivered (3-4000)are easy to spot as they have the round cocking piece like an smle and are all Nz marked. It’s suggested that these arrived with US forces in around 42/43.
They were not in common issue until the very end of the war and even then the smle remained the predominant rifle. Large shipments were received in 1946 & 1948 from commonwealth reserves.
The early NZ marked 2 groovers regularly come up at auction and are very collectable.
Of course many have been rebarrelled over the years.
There are a couple of nice 2 groovers for sale at shooter ready in cambridge at the moment.

Originally Posted by Finnwolf

This thread made me dig out my 1942 Long Branch ‘3-oh’ that had been sporterised and barrel shortened and what looks like a home made foresight, the rear is still has the two position battlesight.

Forgotten it has the two groove rifling (in average condition)

Were many two grooves made and what accuracy did they have?

I've heard of some No 4 (T) two-groovers.

It was a manufacturing expediency to only cut two grooves, as rifling machines cut one groove at a time, but the two-groove barrels had to be shown to pass accuracy standards or this timesaving idea would simply not have been given approval.

Once button rifling came in, where each groove is made simultaneously by drawing or pushing a button through the barrel there was no advantage in two groove rifling. If anything, for button rifling it would take extreme force to make 2 deep+wide grooves rather than 5 or 6 small grooves.

Originally Posted by Finnwolf

This thread made me dig out my 1942 Long Branch ‘3-oh’ that had been sporterised and barrel shortened and what looks like a home made foresight, the rear is still has the two position battlesight.

Forgotten it has the two groove rifling (in average condition)

Were many two grooves made and what accuracy did they have?

Greetings @Finnwolf,
There were a lot of two groove barrels made during WW2 in Canada and the US. Target shooters used to replace two groove barrels with the more normal 5 groove thinking the two groove ones were a war time expedient and must be crap. That has not been my experience. My Longbranch scoped .303 had a very rough two groove that shot really well. It was just a pig to clean. Fortunately I had a mint two groove barrel in the cupboard so had it screwed in. It shot even better, around a MoA with my soft loads and the 174 grain round nose. The .303 two groove barrel dimensions are quite weird with very deep narrow grooves but they generally give good accuracy and long service life. I won't be parting with mine.
Regards Grandpamac.