I was wondering if you can use a 223 on DOC land?
I thought I read somewhere 30 cal and above but thought I would ask the question of you good folk.
Cheers in advance for your help.
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I was wondering if you can use a 223 on DOC land?
I thought I read somewhere 30 cal and above but thought I would ask the question of you good folk.
Cheers in advance for your help.
223 is fine, info available in their website too
Hamish
Sent from my SM-G996B using Tapatalk
Thanks HamishQuote:
Originally Posted by HNTMAD
Pretty much .22 centrefire or bigger centrefire, but not .22Hornet from memory
Thanks stug
Pretty sure the permit says 222 and above.
As above .222 is the minimum centrefire allowed under a normal permit. No 22 Hornet.
You can get special small game rimfire permits for certain areas, mostly for rabbits.
I know the reasons, but it's a daft rule if DOC want pest control done for free.
What he said. 222 rem smallest centrefire cartridge allowed. Anything else by permitQuote:
Originally Posted by dogmatix
If you're targeting small game you apply for this https://www.doc.govt.nz/parks-and-re...unting-permit/
Cheers everyone for your answers, very helpful as always
:thumbsup:
If .222 is the smallest caliber allowed, does that mean 204 Ruger is a no-no?
This is where innovation has superseded the rules of the old days. Some of the new .22 caliber cartridges might have more power than a .222 but not allowed.
And even the 22 hornet with the new powders throwing a 50 gr bullet at >2700 fps, or 55 gr at 2650 fps.
Is definitely a no no as are all the 17 and 20 cal cartridges.
Z
Interesting,
Not knowing much of NZ I hadn't considered this in my planning. But I'm hoping to bring something bigger.
I'm pretty sure I've read a few times that DOC Fuller's used to use .222 on Reds back when they were culling so I guess that stands.
I also know in Australia some states require minimum calibres for certain deer species .
Generally a minimum of .243 for deer and .270 for Sambar Deer.
How hard can this be? It's clearly stated by DOC online. Shotgun, Rimfire .22 and 22 Hornet are all prohibited other than by special permit. All other centerfires are allowed.
https://www.doc.govt.nz/parks-and-re...it-conditions/
Under excluded list
4.0 The following activities are strictly prohibited:
Hunting during the hours of darkness (half an hour after sunset to half hour before sunrise).
Hunting with spotlights, torches, vehicle headlights, or any other artificial light source.
Hunting with any night vision equipment, thermal imaging, infrared or heat detecting devices.
Attaching a torch or other light source to a firearm.
Hunting with any shotgun, rimfire rifle, 17 or 22 hornet calibre, air rifle, or tracer and incendiary type ammunition
6.0 Only centre fire rifles of calibre .222 Remington or larger may be used for hunting, or crossbows and bows that meet the minimum standard specified by DOC. See Bow and crossbow hunting.
That about covers it for general hunting.
So is a .204ruger bigger or smaller than .222 rem? It burns more powder and most loads give more energy but the bore size is smaller. What about a 300blk, less powder and velocity, don't know about energy
If you can shoot a bird with a 22 Hornet, what stops you from shooting it with a 223?
Coz there's less left to eat afterwardsQuote:
Originally Posted by Synthetic
So my 22.250 is ok then phew
and if you talk to ranger....they love bird shooters using a .12ga...much easier to find them with bag full of keruru than the fellas using a .177 air rifle.
its another of the outdated rules.
agree the .204 POSSIBLY on paper beats the .222remington...but its more likely to be loaded with purely varmit projectile so arguably less suitable....fed with a mono projectile...do they even make one in .20calibre??? it could be interesting choice....for wallabies it wouldnt matter a hoot..for deer or pig it could make huge difference,as it does in all the .22 centrefires.
when was the last time you saw DOC ranger while hunting???? when was last time one asked what cartridge you were using????
for myself...Ive never seen one,let alone be asked.
Shoot a Keruru with your 270 and he will appear. Know of more than one skid site known as "30-06 skid where a Keruru lost his head.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
@Huntfisheat Yup; it's hardly rocket science. Clearly written at #6 on the permit....
nope its NOT clear cut.... .222 remington is a cartridge....so what it bigger or smaller is relative... if regulations said .224 calibre with no less than 23grns of powder capacity...it would be clearcut.... a .204 caibre is out as too skinny.
a .22hornet is out as too small of powder capacity
if a ftlb of say 500ftlb at muzzle was stated it would be clearer still and maybe the hot rodded .204 would squeak in...the hornet would still fail.
the rule was written many years ago and as others have said is now out of date. it was also written long before suppressors were around on more than one in a thousand rifles...
A lot of deer died with the 22 Hornet, if I remember correctly one of greatest forestry hunters, Don Kiddie used one with great results, but then he shot hundreds of deer with the humble 22.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
First time I went into Waihaha I took Dads .22 Hornet.
Would've been 16-17 at the time all by myself too.
Didn't get geographically embarrassed either that happened later.
I personally like a little more firepower than minimum as it gives me more shot options.
However the rules aren't exactly clear and simple; does of .222rem calibre or larger mean?
Caliber( bullet diameter): I.E. any .22 (.22cal usually .224 diameter) center-fire apart from Hornet. ( Would make .221fireball legal and I think anyone would agree it's smaller than .222)
Powder capacity: pretty simple if the capacity in cubic mm is smaller than that of a .222rem it's out. (Can't use.300 BLK)
Both: If both capacity and bullet diameter are bigger then that cartridge (calibre) is definitely bigger, however it's not these obvious ones where the debate lies.
Bullet weight: Easy to measure but doesn't help that much, after all it's measuring the projectile and not the cartridge (calibre).
To be properly clear the rules would have to set out a certain diameter projectile of a certain weight at a certain velocity, doesn't matter how you achieve that. They could have multiple combinations so heavy large diameter projectiles are allowed to be slower than small light ones.
IE
Projectiles of .224inch in diameter or larger and weighing at least 50gr with a muzzle velocity of 3000fps or above.
Or
Projectiles of .30inch diameter or larger and weighing at least 120gr with a muzzle velocity of 2300fps or above.
Or
Projectiles of .44inch diameter or larger and weighing at least 250gr with a muzzle velocity of 1600fps or above.
These are just random figures but should give an idea of what I feel would actually make for clear rules.
To be honest the .22 hornet rule is an attempt to make sure you have enough gun.
Plenty deer shot with a .22 but really you wouldn't/shouldn't hunt with one.
I have shot a lot of sheep and the odd cattle beast with a .22 but pretty controlled conditions.
Dad shot a lot of deer and goats with .22 Hornet but he had the deck stacked in his favour.
Goats stuck on a bluff, knew exactly where the deer where coming down on to lucerne paddocks that sort of thing.
And he was confident and practiced with it.
Matt Grant used the .22hp savage for some time.....a crack shot well past the buck fever stage...he loved it for deer but admitted not so good on big stags or boars. the animals havent changed.
Greetings @Micky Duck,
I appear to have re created some .22 Savage Hi Power loads in my .223. Using the Speer 70 grain soft point and 23 grains of AR2206H (all that would fit in the S&B cases) chronographed 2,680 fps. The S&B cases are very heavy at 105 grains compared to 94 to 97 grains for most US commercial and military cases. I will try loads with BM8208 which is less bulky and faster. The Speer 70 grain projectile should stabilise in a 12 inch twist .223 due to their blunt shape. Once I have sorted a load I will try to take it on one of my gentlemans hours mid week wanders. Regrettably the .223 is only one of a number of rifles requesting space in my tiny truck when I am bush bound.
Regards Grandpamac.