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Thread: Stonker

  1. #1
    R93
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    Stonker

    Woke up to an email telling me that the Fallow buck I shot with my besty and son was measured at the NZDA nationals. He went 285 3/8 DS
    and is the largest wild buck shot in NZ to date. He was only measured, not entered as I am not a member of Nzda.

    Another buck was entered this year that measured 289. DS
    It was shot up the Macauley river having not long being released from Lilybank station so I am told.
    Stonker was taken in the Hokinui hills on private land.

    When I was told Stonker was beaten a month after we took him buy a South Canterbury buck and it was all legit I was amazed, knowing the region has never produced an animal even close to 260 DS but anything can happen.
    I heard not long after there was a bit of a story surrounding the Canterbury buck. I only just found out the real one this morning.
    Obviously the Canterbury bucks story was known prior to being entered therfore no dishonesty was ever intended.
    But it got me thinking about the legitimacy of the NZ record books.
    How many animals have slipped into the books that were taken under suspicious circumstances.
    I would say quite a few. I know rumours of a couple and some that almost made it.

    Maybe only animals taken on public land should be recorded or class them accordingly?
    Original genetics have been heavily influenced across the deer species in NZ by modern farm released/escaped animals.
    Apart from Rusa? And some South Westland reds is there any areas left in NZ not influenced by released/escaped genetics?
    Dunno about anyone else but I find it a tad insulting to the great heads taken by hardened hunters of the past, prior to deer farming and genetics.
    It is a fact of life now but I wish it wasn't.




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  2. #2
    Member JoshC's Avatar
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    I personally think there are likely to be a lot of cases where "record book" trophies are shot and entered under dubious circumstances these days. Probably more than you'd think too. I think even restricting to only public land would not stop some interesting entries. It's impossible to prove for a start! Most hunters will lie about where they shot it anyway, just to protect their spot!

    The lines are so hard to draw now, even a massive animal shot on 100% public land, km's from private land can't be guaranteed to not have "farmed" genetics in it's recent history (they all came from farmed/estate blood anyway) And sure there are freak exceptions and I respect that, but I do raise my eyebrows at some heads I see or hear about that are "huge" and shot on "public" land.

    If a massive trophy is hunted legally and is shot in a ethical manner, then so be it, but like you, I too feel a bit for the old timers records getting knocked off their perches by todays animals.

    I know of a couple of cases this year where massive stags have been shot (350+DS), both in areas near where trophy parks are located (like within a couple of kms) and the hunters intend on entering them in local/national NZDA trophy comps. To me this pretty much says that today those comps are nothing but a dick pulling convention, and from what I hear/have seen they really bring the worst out in people (no offence to anyone entering a trophy...lol).

    It is what it is at the end of the day. For these reasons I take pretty much take no notice of records or those competitions. To me a nice trophy is a nice trophy...and this is even more relevant in the eye of the hunter. My 12 I shot in March means a lot more to me than the other heads hanging in the shed that are bigger, and as cliché as it sounds it was the hunt and experience that made it a trophy for me. I will get it mounted one day for me to enjoy.

    Your buck @R93 was a cracker, and I pretty much know the circumstances how you got around to hunting and shooting it (after being told by you on the day you got it), so certainly respect it as the cracking trophy it is. But the fact it is/was a new national record means diddly squat to me.
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  3. #3
    Member Scouser's Avatar
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    Well said mate, thats the problem we will never know....unless DNA samples are taken from ALL farmed animals....
    While I might not be as good as I once was, Im as good once as I ever was!

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  4. #4
    R93
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshC View Post
    But the fact it is/was a new national record means diddly squat to me.
    Me either. It was taken on private land that few would ever be able to hunt legally.
    It was a buzz for a start I admit, but on reflection it was getting him with my long time hunting pal and son that means the most to me.

    I agree on people bullshitting where they shoot animals but I have flown out 3 awesome heads that never seen a tape when I was working in Haast. Animals taken in some places in that region are real trophies in my opinion.

    I know of a few others that are legit genetics from liberation taken down them ways as well.
    There are still uninfluenced deer in that region that have eluded me to date.😆
    I only want one.





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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by R93 View Post
    I agree on people bullshitting where they shoot animals but I have flown out 3 awesome heads that never seen a tape when I was working in Haast. Animals taken in some places in that region are real trophies in my opinion.

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    Yeah, I meant to say that too, but I forgot. There are HEAPS of wicked trophies getting shot each year that aren't even brought into the public eye, and usually only because the hunters prefer it that way.
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  6. #6
    Member Tahr's Avatar
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    I think that the most salient point here R93 is that you are not a a member of nzda.
    You raise all of these questions, and most of them are based around their competitions, their standards and their rules.
    You need to support them?
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  7. #7
    Almost literate. veitnamcam's Avatar
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    Comps and the storys behind where and how they are shot is about as believe able as reading nzhunter magazine
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  8. #8
    R93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahr View Post
    I think that the most salient point here R93 is that you are not a a member of nzda.
    You raise all of these questions, and most of them are based around their competitions, their standards and their rules.
    You need to support them?
    You may be right mate but I don't see how or why it would be of benifit to me. They do not own the record books or the heads in them?
    I have been hunting for 35 years and got along fine without them.
    Most of that hunting for a wage.
    I do find some of their rules/ethics discriminating and hypocritical.

    The Fallow we got will not go in any book or on any records as far as I know.
    It was taken to the nationals by my mate (nzda member) who helped me secure it, to be measured only. I am not into competitions where hunting is concerned. Besides it is only a matter of time when there will be a 300 class fallow taken in southland and I bet it will be close to where we got Stonker.

    It is impossible and just a dream, but I suppose my point is, I would only like to see trophies recorded from legit herds shot by real honest hunters on public land. We had that for a time.
    Some Nz recorded trophies are starting to look like SCI stuff, including mine.


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    Last edited by R93; 03-07-2015 at 02:35 PM.
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  9. #9
    Member JoshC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R93 View Post
    I do find some of their rules/ethics discriminating and hypocritical.

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    I've been a member for a few years, and have certainly found this to be the case, and especially from some of the more "mature" or older members. It's quite disheartening as a newer member. I remain a member of the National office now only to be supportive to the NZDA as a group, because it seems morally right.
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    Totally agree with above comments and with NZDA comments. It seems that if you are not a member of NZDA your trophy does not count.

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    Tahr and chamois would be pretty uninfluenced by introduced genetics/farming would they not?

  12. #12
    Almost literate. veitnamcam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerazziSC3 View Post
    Tahr and chamois would be pretty uninfluenced by introduced genetics/farming would they not?
    Maybe not by genetics but certainly farming.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by R93 View Post
    It is impossible and just a dream, but I suppose my point is, I would only like to see trophies recorded from legit herds shot by real honest hunters on public land. We had that for a time.
    Some Nz recorded trophies are starting to look like SCI stuff, including mine.


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    Completely agree with your idealism. Congratulations on your fallow. If you had made your own little herd starting on your own lifestyle block you could claim it as part of a wider non recognised older herd then join NZDA piss most of the real hunters off in asserting your beaurocratic prowess causing membership turmoil in trying to justify your worth to hunting, read Banwell and articulate your own books on the back of becoming an internet source of invaluable fallow information. The secret of trophy books is getting your name in them, by hook or by crook. I think you missed a trick there R93?

  14. #14
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    Odd that a Fallow gets shot up the Macauly river, I hunt Two Thumbs range a lot, earlier this year was up the Macauly River with my boy and his mate, and he shot a 12pt red, I was fairly sure where it had come from, prior to this I hadn't seen deer in that area in 20yrs. Nothing is ever gonna last long up that river, too many hillbilly bogan fuckwits go up there nowadays (and bloody 4wd clubs), was a great valley before the Macauly trust built that damned hut.
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  15. #15
    R93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Allen View Post
    Completely agree with your idealism. Congratulations on your fallow. If you had made your own little herd starting on your own lifestyle block you could claim it as part of a wider non recognised older herd then join NZDA piss most of the real hunters off in asserting your beaurocratic prowess causing membership turmoil in trying to justify your worth to hunting, read Banwell and articulate your own books on the back of becoming an internet source of invaluable fallow information. The secret of trophy books is getting your name in them, by hook or by crook. I think you missed a trick there R93?
    I have missed a few other tricks over the years Tim. Not to worried tho😆
    Got a feeling your describing someone we might both know😆

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