Thread: What constitutes a trophy???

I like gimps definition.

Also, agree that velvety stags taste extra good. But please try and pick one without Trophy potential.

Originally Posted by Dama dama

I like gimps definition.

Also, agree that velvety stags taste extra good. But please try and pick one without Trophy potential.

Tell me this, if a hunter has no interest at all in trophy potential or antlers and it totally means very little to them compared to meat why should they leave it and go home empty handed ??
So, you saying you should put complete strangers (other hunters) ahead of your own needs?
You dont know if who shoots it in the end is going to be a complete wanker or a good bastard. The hunter that has no interest in antlers at the time could of shot it when its in prime eating condation.
The hunter that might shoot it in its trophy stage is prob going to shoot it in the roar in its worst eating condation .
Depending on the hunter they may take the antlers and leave the meat or take just the back steaks and leave the rest, might do might not.
Is a set of antlers worth more than meat? Whats more of a waste?
In certain areas where people go to hunt for trophy potential stags yes, leaving a promoising stag is ok and prob the right thing to do.(and yes i would leave them)
In common DOC blocks where hunters just go to hunt why should a meat hunter leave what they want for someone else that might get it in its prime and when its a trophy where in all likely situations its prob either going to be shot before it gets there anyway or die from 1080.

Yes, i understand what you saying but it comes down to horses for courses. around here the trophy potential is way to crap. 1080 is dropped everywhere and we get more than a fair share.
They common Doc blocks where most hunt for meat and whats seen is shot .
Yes, around here im more than happy to shoot a velvet stag, a trophy or not and i dont feel bad about it . Other areas it could be different, and thats fair and i agree.

But dont judge others because they dont conform to your needs or wants, hunting is a personal experience and people can do as one wishes and i think thats fine. In the end DOC think they pests, they happy to shoot them all and leave they to rot on the hill or 1080 the lot .
No meat hunter is as bad as that

Originally Posted by deer243

Tell me this, if a hunter has no interest at all in trophy potential or antlers and it totally means very little to them compared to meat why should they leave it and go home empty handed ??
So, you saying you should put complete strangers (other hunters) ahead of your own needs?
You dont know if who shoots it in the end is going to be a complete wanker or a good bastard. The hunter that has no interest in antlers at the time could of shot it when its in prime eating condation.
The hunter that might shoot it in its trophy stage is prob going to shoot it in the roar in its worst eating condation .
Depending on the hunter they may take the antlers and leave the meat or take just the back steaks and leave the rest, might do might not.
Is a set of antlers worth more than meat? Whats more of a waste?
In certain areas where people go to hunt for trophy potential stags yes, leaving a promoising stag is ok and prob the right thing to do.(and yes i would leave them)
In common DOC blocks where hunters just go to hunt why should a meat hunter leave what they want for someone else that might get it in its prime and when its a trophy where in all likely situations its prob either going to be shot before it gets there anyway or die from 1080.

Yes, i understand what you saying but it comes down to horses for courses. around here the trophy potential is way to crap. 1080 is dropped everywhere and we get more than a fair share.
They common Doc blocks where most hunt for meat and whats seen is shot .
Yes, around here im more than happy to shoot a velvet stag, a trophy or not and i dont feel bad about it . Other areas it could be different, and thats fair and i agree.

But dont judge others because they dont conform to your needs or wants, hunting is a personal experience and people can do as one wishes and i think thats fine. In the end DOC think they pests, they happy to shoot them all and leave they to rot on the hill or 1080 the lot .
No meat hunter is as bad as that

Its not nessarily the only animal you see though (it doesnt guarantee going home empty handed) so why not be somewhat considerate to the next guy. You learn alot watching animals not just killing the first. If it is the only one you see then go for if you need the meat otherwise why not wait til next time. My experience is its very rare to only see stags. Also during the velvet stage they are often bunched up and i think Dama Dama is suggesting dont just shoot the biggest one try pick the one thats maybe missing tines or has a ugly head etc.

Like i said up where you are in Nelson heads are typically not going to be monsters so maybe be less stringent but say areas such as the wider poulter/hurunui/ rakaia/ otago areas maybe be more selective. You sound like you already set your self some goals for what youd like while your freezer is well topped up. Its a good thing to not determine a hunts success in what you kill as the experience is worth it regardless. also every deer has meat but only mature stags grow good antlers so while they aren't worth more necessarily than meat they are only available if they are allowed to mature. Whereas killing a stag doesn't knock out the opportunity for meat hunters to the same extent.

I'm not saying your doing anything wrong as it sounds like you are already considering others by leaving some animals so i cant really ask any more of you as you have compromised from just killing the first of anything. I appreciate it and most guys do none of us are perfect and none of us agree what perfect is either lol.

Clearly if i have a choice i pick the animal that suits the best. ie if a hind and yearling i shoot the yearling and leave the hind. If two stags together, i shoot the crap one first.
Certain areas, prob many you can be more selective and i would, esp higher animal numbers.
But you have to remember where i hunt, only DOC land in the nelson region the animal numbers are not high.
The place gets so much 1080 its not funny and hunting pressure.
Hence, i hunt well over a dozen areas , so some places i only go to once a year to manage whats there etc. Being bush stalking, and pretty thick at times its not a walk in the park.
Most of the times you get one chance , stuff that up and its no deer this time. i think i do pretty well, but still when its costing 70 dollars gas, food etc a trip and it might be 3-4 trips before you get a animal
im taking most i come across as not often you get second chances . Velvet stag or not lol.
Of cause trophy heads are just not here unless hunting the tops so you dont leave animals for the sake of anyone else if thats your wish.
Always mostly only take one, leave everything else for next time or someone else.
I might leave one for myself later etc(good stag in velvet) but being a meat hunter around here theres not much point. .
The key is to not flog one place. hunt new areas, and many so animals are always there for next time, Hard yards required thuu but experience and time you can do pretty well in even low animal number areas

good going lads....its a wonderful change to see folk actually being civil and talking things out rather than throwing shit.....
pigs are another one...you have two pigs in front of you say 100 yards away...a plurry big boar and a 80lb sow.......50 quid to a knob of goat shit anyone meat hunting will take the sow. now if its only the boar...umm do I REALLY WANT TO CARRY IT???? am I possibly going to see something else??? hmmm good hooks ,do I want it for myself or give mate with dogs a crack...... Ive shot 2x 140ish lb boars in last year...neither time was I looking for one and neither time was ANYTHING edible left on the hill.the first one I had 3 mates with me...easy 2nd one on my own....far out brussel spout was that a gut busting carry,hind legs whole and front boned out plus eye n back steaks...my pikau was loaded...hooks??? about an inch if that....
tasted great.
in an area where dogs not allowed I would shoot any pig without hesitating as I love pork.
keep up the good banter chaps.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

good going lads....its a wonderful change to see folk actually being civil and talking things out rather than throwing shit.....
pigs are another one...you have two pigs in front of you say 100 yards away...a plurry big boar and a 80lb sow.......50 quid to a knob of goat shit anyone meat hunting will take the sow. now if its only the boar...umm do I REALLY WANT TO CARRY IT???? am I possibly going to see something else??? hmmm good hooks ,do I want it for myself or give mate with dogs a crack...... Ive shot 2x 140ish lb boars in last year...neither time was I looking for one and neither time was ANYTHING edible left on the hill.the first one I had 3 mates with me...easy 2nd one on my own....far out brussel spout was that a gut busting carry,hind legs whole and front boned out plus eye n back steaks...my pikau was loaded...hooks??? about an inch if that....
tasted great.
in an area where dogs not allowed I would shoot any pig without hesitating as I love pork.
keep up the good banter chaps.

Not all pigs taste good Hunter Hill pigs are dog tucker don't know what causes it but there bad ,smell funny to like a chemical.

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I agree not all pigs taste nice especially the big smelly bores that have been torn to pieces and stressed to the max by pig dogs before you get to finish them off.
I have been lucky these last 7 months I been rung up 2 times to shoot pigs ripping up a mates only paddock next to a swamp that has green grass on it as everything else is brown like a desert due to the drought worst I ever seen that I can remember. anyways got called up last Saturday and spotted 11 pigs making a mess and managed to deck 4 of them before they disappeared. Free food to put in the freezer for me witch is good because haven,t worked for 9 months been a bit sick and its bloody hard having to live off the sickness benefit. Life sucks some times but hay I am still kicking and on the mend thank fuck. anyway back to the pigs I managed to shoot 2 in the head and 2 on the run in the engine room with minimal meat damage 2x80LB and 1x120lb bores 1x70LB sow in not bad nick considering the drought conditions 308 injections work well

Pigs around here always taste real good. Lots of escapees from the past and releases from years ago have put good breeding stock in the wild. Ive noticed over the years the pigs taste better and better
as the years go on generally.
Pigs shot taste better still than a pig thats been dogged . I always try shoot one if see one in the bush, shot the odd one and like Mickey Duck said if a 140lb boar standing there with a 60 lb sow i prob be shooting the 60lber.

@deer243 Very good points mate. I'm primarily a pot hunter, and like bringing home the bacon (well venison, I've only killed a handful of pigs...). But I love big antlers too. Like you, in some of the areas I hunt I shoot anything as there will never been any thing decent come out in terms of trophies. In other areas, I'm a bit more picky (Centrel Otago, Greenstone/caples, among others). I do that by taking a hind/doe instead of a young stag and checking over stags for antler quality if I have time. Also, to be fair I don't hunt much during the summer these days anyway.

However, each to his/her own, while I'll ask people not to shoot good stags in in velvet, I'll not judge (to much) if you do as plenty of folk just want meat. I love that NZ has pretty nonrestrictive game laws and each hunter can do as he pleases.

I've come to this point in my hunting as I have regretted shooting young male deer (in areas with good trophy potential) and a large velvet stag in the past. These are really just my personal ethics/standards that I hold myself too, mainly so I don't feel shit about what I've done. Lessons in wider life are kinda the same....

Thanks for challenging me on this, as it helps me to cement my thinking.

Originally Posted by Dama dama

@deer243 Very good points mate. I'm primarily a pot hunter, and like bringing home the bacon (well venison, I've only killed a handful of pigs...). But I love big antlers too. Like you, in some of the areas I hunt I shoot anything as there will never been any thing decent come out in terms of trophies. In other areas, I'm a bit more picky (Centrel Otago, Greenstone/caples, among others). I do that by taking a hind/doe instead of a young stag and checking over stags for antler quality if I have time. Also, to be fair I don't hunt much during the summer these days anyway.

However, each to his/her own, while I'll ask people not to shoot good stags in in velvet, I'll not judge (to much) if you do as plenty of folk just want meat. I love that NZ has pretty nonrestrictive game laws and each hunter can do as he pleases.

I've come to this point in my hunting as I have regretted shooting young male deer (in areas with good trophy potential) and a large velvet stag in the past. These are really just my personal ethics/standards that I hold myself too, mainly so I don't feel shit about what I've done. Lessons in wider life are kinda the same....

Thanks for challenging me on this, as it helps me to cement my thinking.

I wish i had hunting areas that had the potential for a good trophy. Unless its a private block around here DOC is crap but its still good for a bush stalker to get a animal.
No doubt what so ever if i was hunting somewhere else where theres better potential i certainly be leaving up and coming animals and being more selective.
But as it is im not hunting easy spots generally, farms, bush edges etc. Im walking deep in the bush all day, some hard yakka in areas where it takes some effort just to see one in 6 hours sometimes.

I normally track a animal down but if you stuff it up thats it generally for the day. Hence my opinion on people that try tell me not to shoot this or that as its a different world where
they can hand pick their animals or the trophy potential is actually there(its not here in most areas)

So i never judge others what they shoot and if they happy thats the point. In the end a deer shoot by a hunter is better than getting 1080 or culled by f kng DOC

I 've never understood why a stag with huge antlers is more attractive to some hunters than one with mediocre ones..can somebody explain that to me? Is it an ego thing? I look back on 57 years of deerstalking and remember fondly deer I took which required huge physical effort, or one I shot 2 minutes after leaving the car, or shooting one 5 minutes before the ballot period closed, or the first deer taken after a very long spell out of the bush due to a chronic illness, but never for the size of the antlers. I realise we are all motivated by different values, but I just don't get the "trophy" thing..just saying.

Originally Posted by Ranger 888

I 've never understood why a stag with huge antlers is more attractive to some hunters than one with mediocre ones..can somebody explain that to me? Is it an ego thing? I look back on 57 years of deerstalking and remember fondly deer I took which required huge physical effort, or one I shot 2 minutes after leaving the car, or shooting one 5 minutes before the ballot period closed, or the first deer taken after a very long spell out of the bush due to a chronic illness, but never for the size of the antlers. I realise we are all motivated by different values, but I just don't get the "trophy" thing..just saying.

Assuming it's fair chase and on public land (that's important to me personally) then a larger/more mature stag theoretically means he's eluded more hunters over his time to get to that stage. Having said that, I mostly hunt Fiordland bush in the roar where the trophies aren't that flash. Over the last five years or so I've shot an 8, a 9, a 10, an 11 and a 13 pointer but all of those heads are far inferior to look at compared to the Otago 12 I have on the wall. My favourite trophy of is the ugly Fiordland 10 shot from 15m in thick bush after a tricky stalk because he was old (and in my mind cunning) and the stalk was a challenge.

Each to their own on this topic though I say.

Originally Posted by Ranger 888

I 've never understood why a stag with huge antlers is more attractive to some hunters than one with mediocre ones..can somebody explain that to me? Is it an ego thing? I look back on 57 years of deerstalking and remember fondly deer I took which required huge physical effort, or one I shot 2 minutes after leaving the car, or shooting one 5 minutes before the ballot period closed, or the first deer taken after a very long spell out of the bush due to a chronic illness, but never for the size of the antlers. I realise we are all motivated by different values, but I just don't get the "trophy" thing..just saying.

The antler are one of the few things that shine back to the traditional releases ie within reason each areas animals antlers once they mature typically follow a style of the place they came from. Ie the rakaia, pukter otago, wairapa etc so wanting a mature representative not only means it's survived lots of hunters but is a visual link back to the original history of the releases that brought them here. Also you will find it is changing from desire for juts bug antlers to mature animals. You won't find many guys here that want a high fence monster. They want the real cunning old stag from the back blocks. It creates a challenge to aim for that involves hard work and eventually the trophy represents not only that hunts but in some cases years of hunting and learning and trying new techniques to find that big cunning old boys that no one else could get.

Originally Posted by NRT

Not all pigs taste good Hunter Hill pigs are dog tucker don't know what causes it but there bad ,smell funny to like a chemical.

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interesting comment that...IVE had three boars from up there over the years...2 about 140ish and one 120ish all were primo eating....maybe you struck them when they had been into pines and eating spanyard roots.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

interesting comment that...IVE had three boars from up there over the years...2 about 140ish and one 120ish all were primo eating....maybe you struck them when they had been into pines and eating spanyard roots.

Years ago when i hunted the sounds the pigs used to be crap eating. Skinny, rangey things that lived in fern and scrub and tasted like that only ate fern..
Never used to grow to a huge size, a 120lber down there used to be like catching a 150lber here. Its changed abit now from people gone by releasing pigs into the bush.
Taste better, fatter and grow bigger. Down murchison way the pigs can have 2 to 3 inches of fat on them!