What Sort of Deer Is This ?

I shot this yesterday in the Kaimais. It's a pretty small deer, actually. I only got 4kg of venison boned out from the back legs and backsteaks.


Here it is next to my standard sized rifle (22" barrel).
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Here's the head side on.
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and at a bit more of an angle. What's with the pale area around the eye ?
Attachment 240689

The tail and rump patch were a bit more cream and red coloured than this photo shows:
Attachment 240690

It wasn't too skinny and the venison looked good. But I didn't do a thorough dissection looking at the liver and lungs.
It was a male but to call it a stag would be overstating things. There was no sign of velvet at all. So, too big for this year's fawn and too small to be a year old and a spiker ? What do you make of it ?

red deer

Red deer, likely lost its mum at a young age so maybe malnourished

Hamish

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last years red fawn who probably lost mum early on... been doing it very hard.

That's what I was thinking too.
It was on a south side in deep bush.

I seen a new born fawn this year during the roar and in the last ten years its not the only fawn i have seen out of season.
Couple weeks ago i shot what i would called a yearling hind (different area) small like above photo in poor condition. I didn't bother taking any meat and left it where i shoot it

I have picture of a young stag of a couple of years ago with that exact same distinct clear ring around the eye. Could be relative if shot not too far from old kaimai Rd.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

last years red fawn who probably lost mum early on... been doing it very hard.

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yes a red runt

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Originally Posted by Friwi

I have picture of a young stag of a couple of years ago with that exact same distinct clear ring around the eye. Could be relative if shot not too far from old kaimai Rd.

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It was about 20 km from there.

It will be a red that was born out of season because its mum was still a fawn when she first cycled probably in late june. poor start all round. born to a tiny mum going into winter.

I shot one last month there that was feeding on grass but was small (a bit bigger than yours). Probably lost its Mum ... oh deer

I've shot more runts/poorly grown deer over the last 12 months than ever before. Their heads look out of proportion to their body size. And Ive shot a mature dry hind and a dry doe on my last 2 hunts - thats unusual. In this case its over population. The further from the main scrub block you get and into the farm proper the better the deer get. There's about 1500 acres of shit scrub country right against high production sheep country that has plenty of cover for them but they persist in living in the shit stuff. Reds and Fallow. They could have the life of Riley if they migrated 500 yards and further. I shot 66 last year and still see 25-30 each time Im out. It's a shame because there are some excellent bloodlines. I target females a lot but it's a shame at the moment that because of the fawns the spikers are copping it.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

I've shot more runts/poorly grown deer over the last 12 months than ever before. Their heads look out of proportion to their body size. And Ive shot a mature dry hind and a dry doe on my last 2 hunts - thats unusual. In this case its over population. The further from the main scrub block you get and into the farm proper the better the deer get. There's about 1500 acres of shit scrub country right against high production sheep country that has plenty of cover for them but they persist in living in the shit stuff. Reds and Fallow. They could have the life of Riley if they migrated 500 yards and further. I shot 66 last year and still see 25-30 each time Im out. It's a shame because there are some excellent bloodlines. I target females a lot but it's a shame at the moment that because of the fawns the spikers are copping it.

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one of the best eating reds I ever shot was an older dry red hind - had an inch of fat all over the back steaks - dont think she had ever had a fawn

Looks like a dead deer to me :)

We are starting to see out of season fawns here in the uk.
Might be the same there as a few have said.
God knows they won’t survive the winter here if we get a cold blast from the north.

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Originally Posted by blip

Looks like a dead deer to me :)

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tell us what gave the show away

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Originally Posted by blip

Looks like a dead deer to me :)

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No no he's not dead, he's, he's resting!

@Bagheera was that up the falls? The Mrs was talking briefly to a joker who carried a small deer down. You perhaps?

I don't see glands on inner back leg. The tail seems long.
Freak fallow red cross, luke horse x donkey = mule.
Did you notice if underside of tail had the usual red gland?

no fallow red don't cross - not even the same family - fallow are Dama Dama red are Servus Elaphus -no its just a real young runt of a red

Yes, I know. Fallow are a type of antelipe. There are no ta or leg glands on them, which made me wonder if this was some sort of sterile freak cross like a mule

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Originally Posted by Woody

Yes, I know. Fallow are a type of antelipe. There are no ta or leg glands on them, which made me wonder if this was some sort of sterile freak cross like a mule

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no just young red - dont think fallow are an antelope just a very old breed of deer - they are in the general family of cervidae along with reds wapiti -- from the learn something stupid every day heres an interesting fact about mules - a horse stallion x donkey mare is called a hinnie -- a donkey stallion x horse mare is a mule - hinnies are usually by accident whereas mules have been bred for centurys there ya learn something stupid every day - a mate in Stratford bred a mule - reckoned dirtiest little mongrel he had ever come across - kicked bit nasty little shit

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Originally Posted by Friwi

I have picture of a young stag of a couple of years ago with that exact same distinct clear ring around the eye. Could be relative if shot not too far from old kaimai Rd.

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have a related/unrelated question for you guys who humt the lower kaimai regularly,
i havent had time to do a proper hunt over the breajk but managed to sneak a day in yesterday , fuck it was quiet (like after a 1080 drop quiet) im used to seeing and hearing alot of native birds in pureora . humped in about 4ks before seeing any sign that was no fresher than the night before decent size animal had left the deposit but wasnt much of it and maybe evidence of one or two different deer (again not like im used to i pureora where the sign is alot more varied and plenty)
it was pretty hot up there yesterday so im pickin i was in the right place at the wrong time but anyway te question was is it normal in the lower kaimai to be so quiet and the evidence of deer to be so minimal ?
am i better off to go back to the upper kaimai which seems to be alot more busy (people ) cos its even closer for me when i want to get amongst it for a day?

@charliehorse yes I did mention to someone I had a small deer.

@Woody i have to admit I didnt look under the tail … it was the size of one of those handbag sika so i wondered if it could have been a cross but the body looked just like a red only small. Would you like me to post a higher resolution pic ?

@scotty Regarding amount of deer sign, some parts of Pureora do have more. In the Kaimais its more localised and seems to vary with season. I’m always there just after the deer it seems. “No deer in the Kaimais”, remember ? But there are quite few good spots if you search them out. Certainly there are more birds in Pureora, like kaka and NZ falcon swooping down the roads. As far as I know there has been no aerial 1080 in the Kaimais for a quarter century.

Ive seen more pig sign up there over the last 5 years or so. Dogs make deer flighty but all power to them if they can limit pig numbers.

Theres been a lot of rain up there recently, all old prints washed away, droppings faded clean.
The steams were higher than Ive seen them before.
Try again after a couple of weeks dry weather and new grass will have grown up as the swamps drain out.

@scotty what do you class as lower kaimai?

@Bagheera. Bigger pic won't solve, ut have read up of the tail and leg glands of reds.
Another puzzle turned up recently where a live fox - dog hybrid was discovered. Some strange things are occurring in various fauna around the world. DNA changes, many forever chemicals etc throughout.

Then, there have been Hummels forever as well.

I wonder if this would have grown up to be a hummel ?
I once shot one at Arthurs Pass decades ago.

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Originally Posted by charliehorse

@scotty what do you class as lower kaimai?

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going in from 29