Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Terminator Knives Africa


User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 10 of 10
Like Tree1Likes
  • 1 Post By Carlsen Highway

Thread: .44-40 dies and bullet mold

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    canterbury
    Posts
    884

    .44-40 dies and bullet mold

    Wanted to buy.

    .44-40 reloading dies.
    Three die set preferred, any brand considered, as long as in reasonable condition.

    .44 bullet mold. So should be a .429 or there about.
    Flat nose and flat base wanted for projectiles to be used in Winchester 1892 SRC.

    Cheers

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Waikato
    Posts
    528
    I asked this question on another forum last week David, and most people seemed to think the RCBS cowboy dies were the best for cast. Gun city has a set of RCBS dies in stock but theyre the RN set for jacketed bullets.
    Im thinking of doing a buy from Brownells soon if you want to split postage...
    Mitch

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Port Chalmers
    Posts
    753
    I use Lee dies in .44-40, plus the Lee Factory crimp die, which is essential for the .44-40. I load both cast and jacketed. Reloaders Supplies in Auckland will have them.

    Accurate Molds in the US sell good molds at reasonable price, and they send them out immediately - I think I had mine in ten days. Can you give you the ID numbers of two different mold designs that are copies of original 19Century .44-40 designs if your interested. Accurate Molds will do different designs in the same mold - so I got a two cavity mold, with each a different design. (They use Lee handles) Excellent molds.

    BTW If anyone is interested in buying good quality swiss black powder for loading .44-40 with blackpowder loads I would be interested in combining an order.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Waikato
    Posts
    528
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlsen Highway View Post
    I use Lee dies in .44-40, plus the Lee Factory crimp die, which is essential for the .44-40. I load both cast and jacketed. Reloaders Supplies in Auckland will have them.

    Accurate Molds in the US sell good molds at reasonable price, and they send them out immediately - I think I had mine in ten days. Can you give you the ID numbers of two different mold designs that are copies of original 19Century .44-40 designs if your interested. Accurate Molds will do different designs in the same mold - so I got a two cavity mold, with each a different design. (They use Lee handles) Excellent molds.

    BTW If anyone is interested in buying good quality swiss black powder for loading .44-40 with blackpowder loads I would be interested in combining an order.
    Id never heard of Accurate Molds, thanks for that. Their range of designs and options is nothing short of impressive!

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    canterbury
    Posts
    884
    Quote Originally Posted by tanqueray View Post
    I’d never heard of Accurate Molds, thanks for that. Their range of designs and options is nothing short of impressive!

    Impressive verging on mind boggling @tanqueray

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    canterbury
    Posts
    884
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlsen Highway View Post

    BTW If anyone is interested in buying good quality swiss black powder for loading .44-40 with blackpowder loads I would be interested in combining an order.
    Excuse my ignorance, but why not use Holy Smoke powder ?
    Its just that I have FFFG on hand for my .50 cal muzzleloader anyway.
    Or is the Swiss black powder significantly different / better ?

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Port Chalmers
    Posts
    753
    I have used Holy Smoke powder, (and also Scheutzen) Reputedly, the swiss burns moister (less fouling) and has a 8-10% power increase. Its just better quality. Cost is $80 a pound - but haz transport fee is $80 per shipment.
    I have had most accurate .44-40 BP load made with 36 grains of 3 F Holy smoke (or scheutzen), over an initial priming charge of 6 grains of AR2205 - then compressed before seating the bullet. Very accurate indeed. This is an old target shooters trick from around 1900 when first Dupont smokeless became available. (The smokeless priming cleans up the fouling) Velocity of a 217 grain bullet in my Rossi 92 is 1266fps, and in my '73 rifle 1170fps.
    I have not been able to match this accuracry with straight black powder, I suspect due to lessor quality of the powder. The stuff they had in the 19th century up to the 1920's was much better than what we can get today, although this Swiss powder seems to match it.

    Once you start loading cast bullets and loading with black powder you have to start looking into how they did it in the old days, because the whole game is different. For example, not only is the charge weight and degree of compression significant, but also the alloy of the bullet. Original .44-40 factory was loaded with pure lead, and these would bump up and shoot well in any sized bore within reason, but varying the amount of tin in the mix - from 1% up to about 5% would make a slightly harder bullet. The accurate BP duplex load I noted above shoots best with a 1:16 alloy. (What the buffalo hunters used to use incidentally.)

    to start I would recommend you use 1% - 2% tin in your pure lead mix (not wheelweights) - you can use solder for tin. It makes a pretty bullet easy, and is still soft enough to obdurate, even in a bullet that is undesized.

    Last edited by Carlsen Highway; 01-01-2018 at 09:49 PM.

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Port Chalmers
    Posts
    753
    Quote Originally Posted by akaroa1 View Post
    Impressive verging on mind boggling @tanqueray
    The Accurate Molds bullets I use are :

    43-215C : which is a copy of the 19th century factory bullet nose profile, with a crimp groove and an enlarged lube groove to enable the use of modern BP which fouls more than the old. It also shoots excellently with smokeless.
    43-210B : copy of the old Lyman 427098 from the 19th century, without a crimp groove (designed for BP).

    Order them to be .430 diameter when using pure lead, unless you know for sure you have a .427 - .428 diameter bore. (You can increase the diameter by adding more tin to your alloy.) The aluminium mold works wonderfully, I see no reason to prefer the steel mold.

    I have done most of my black powder work with the 43-215C, but the second bullet will shoot well with smokeless, with either AR2207 or AP70N (H4198 and Universal - which I use as if its Unique)

    Theres a couple of things to be aware of with all of this - with the soft lead bullets, you have to compress your blackpowder first before you seat the bullet - the bullets are too soft to use in a seating die to compress the powder, they will deform.

    With smokeless the soft lead will not hold a crimp well. In the early 20th C they loaded smokeless with a bulk Dupont powder that would fill the case the same as blackpowder thereby supporting the bullet, they didnt need a crimp. This can be mimicked (including the original velocity) with AR2207 / H4198. (Modern .44-40 factory gets around this by having a crimp in the case underneath the bullet to hold it in place, something us handloaders cant replicate.)
    With something like AP70 / Universal, where the powder is not supporting the base of the bullet, you can load them and shoot them, but are not much good for hunting if you are loading and unloading the rifle a few times - the crimp will fail after going through the magazine a couple of times and bullets will telescope into the cases.

    I have done a lot of work with the .44-40. It's probably my favourite cartridge of all.

    Last edited by Carlsen Highway; 01-01-2018 at 09:53 PM.
    akaroa1 likes this.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    helensville nz
    Posts
    2,354
    Slug your bore being old it probably has some expected wear and tear meaning the barrel could need a slightly bigger bullet
    Rule of thumb is your want a bullet 0.001” over bore size
    Also some older rifles had strange size bores and actually require a smaller bullet like.427
    Just a case of running over size bullets through a sizeing die

    Im currently running the lee 429 200gn flat point mold which with pure roofing lead drops.430
    I size to 429 to suit the bore of my uburti 1866 winny copy which slugs at 428
    I only shoot black powder or light smokeless cowboy loads so soft lead is the go
    That bullet shoots awesome im my rifle

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Port Chalmers
    Posts
    753
    Rambo is right, but an advantage with blackpowder, which has a sharper ignition than smokeless, soft lead bullets will bump up to fit the bore, so bore size is not so critical, this is why in black powder days the bore size on the old rifles varied so much. They standardised once smokeless and jacketed bullets came in and then bore sizes became more uniform.
    For example a .427 pure lead bullet shot with black powder will bump up and can shoot well in a .430 bore if its pure lead, or pure with one or two percent tin.

    If you are shooting a hard lead alloy, with antimony in it, wheel weights or commercial alloy, then you should have to size a thou over is best, because these bullets will not obdurate and bump up in the bore.

    In my experience the Rossi 92's have a .430 bore (they are just using .44 magnum barrels chambered in .44-40) and the modern Uberti's are now .430 as well, whereas earlier they were the 'proper'.44 WCF size of .427-.428. If you have an older Uberti, or an original Winchester you should slug the bore and see what you have. An oversized bore (.431-.432) will still shoot well with pure lead and black powder.

    (It seems that the manufacturers now expect .44-40 people to be shooting .44 magnum bullets. Which actually makes things simpler if you have a modern made rifle - you can use .44 mag jacketed bullets if you want. The Hornady 200 grain XTP (.430) is a very good bullet, accurate too. I have driven these with high velocity loads in my Rossi carbine and an octagonal 24 inch rifle, up to 1700 fps using AR2205, with fine accuracy. )

    The other thing to learn about is lube. The commercial lubes I have found to be rubbish, much too hard. You need a soft lube for blackpowder, and then that same lube will work just as well for smokeless. I use Chefade melted and mixed with some beeswax.

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. 10mm/.40 cal 200gr bullet mold
    By R93 in forum Reloading and Ballistics
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 05-04-2017, 10:56 PM
  2. WTB: 310 cadet bullet mold wanted
    By bluecod in forum Buy, Sell or Swap
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 19-03-2017, 09:04 PM
  3. Wtd Bullet mold
    By BRADS in forum Buy, Sell or Swap
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 05-01-2016, 09:41 PM
  4. 358 bullet mold want heavey one
    By bluecod in forum Buy, Sell or Swap
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 14-12-2014, 08:10 PM
  5. .38 357 bullet mold wanted
    By bluecod in forum Buy, Sell or Swap
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 19-06-2013, 07:43 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Welcome to NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums! We see you're new here, or arn't logged in. Create an account, and Login for full access including our FREE BUY and SELL section Register NOW!!