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Black Watch Alpine


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Thread: FS lee Enfield no4

  1. #1
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    FS lee Enfield no4

    DP marked Long branch 1943 no4 mrk 1 star with bayonet.
    Cash offers or Swap for a Mauser


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    grunzter likes this.

  2. #2
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    where are you and how much are you after

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by berg243 View Post
    where are you and how much are you after
    Hamilton after 650


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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winny100 View Post
    DP marked Long branch 1943 no4 mrk 1 star with bayonet.
    Cash offers or Swap for a Mauser


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Would also swap for a lever action 45/70


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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winny100 View Post
    DP marked Long branch 1943 no4 mrk 1 star with bayonet.
    Cash offers or Swap for a Mauser


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Member marky123's Avatar
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    Are you selling it as a wall hanger?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by marky123 View Post
    Are you selling it as a wall hanger?
    Iíve shot it but havenít shot on paper to see how accurate it is.


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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by marky123 View Post
    Are you selling it as a wall hanger?
    I'd hope he is.

    Here's what Peter Laidler had to say about DP rifles, particularly No4s:

    Senior Armourer in the Britsh Army - Peter Laidler.

    Your rifle, your life, you decide -

    DP rifles in Britain

    I have mentioned ‘Britain’ here but while I can’t include Canada, I can certainly include New Zealand and Australia with a degree of certainty plus India, whose Army liaison Officer at work ran his eyes over this paper for me. I have also mentioned DP too and in this respect, it isn’t meant to mean ‘DRILL’ in the parade square context, it is meant to indicate practicing your rifle ‘training drills’. And it’s not only rifles that were downgraded to DP either because in the days of the old ‘number’ radio sets, many of these were classified as DP sets too.

    When I read about DP rifles in various places, I get the impression from the armchair experts that they are formulated by someone in the Armourers shop who decides that he’ll make/convert a few rifles in order to …………. NOTHING could be more dangerous nor further from the truth. One other thing too. Do not mix up DP rifles with the ‘higher’ standard (?) ‘sub-standard’ rifles that trickled out of service in the early 50’s. At least there were gauging limits for those!

    When need exists for such rifles, the idea is put up to the Brigade Training Major for example and ‘staffed’ up the chain of command where a decision on the matter will be reached after due questioning of all concerned. I’ll take a fictitious unit training for an operational role in bongo-bongo land. The attrition rate of the weapons on the training team, due to the arduous nature of the training is critical is such that they need 20 rifles and 6 GPMG’s that can be used and abused. Authority is given for them to be issued these ‘extra’ DP classified weapons from Ordnance stockpiles. So, in the normal course of events, these are issued from training stocks.

    But, let’s say the DP stocks aren’t available, then authority will be issued FROM THE MINISTRY OF DEFENCE no less, for such weapons to be made available. Ordnance stores would then select from returned weapons that are deemed to be ‘ZF’ (that’s an Armourers technical explanation that I won’t go into) or BER (Beyond Economic Repair) to select the required amount for conversion to DP specification.

    Now, if the required amount cannot be made from the ZF and BER stocks, then the remainder will simply be converted from standard war stocks. You will see from this, that while on the face of it, some 30 years down the line that your bright and shining No1 or No4 rifle LOOKS bright and shining, under the bright and shiny surface might be lurking a metallurgical nightmare ……………… Let me give you an example

    During the 60’s and 70’s there was a constant need for No4 DP rifles, not only for cadet Forces but Parachute training too where the actual carrying of a rifle was more important than what the weapon was for. The reason for the attrition in this case was quite understandable. So a small but continuous rolling programme of ‘DP-ing’ was undertaken. Naturally many ZF/BER No4’s plus otherwise serviceable rifles were put into the programme plus a healthy dollop of L1A1 rifles too. Not only were these worn out rifles put into the pot, but we later learned, several thousand extensively fire damaged No4, L1A1 rifles and Bren guns that had been involved in a massive fire. These were aesthetically cleaned down, rebuilt to DP standard and profusely marked JUST so that there could be no doubt about their status. Oh, they looked very nice but what had gone on under the surface was a matter of conjecture. Would YOU fire one? I’ve been an Armourer for a couple of years and while I or your local gunsmith could examine one and give it a bright clean bill of health, would YOU trust it. NO, I wouldn’t either!

    Let me give you another example too. NO dates here of course but ‘recently’ several hundred assorted weapons were recovered from a fire ravaged/damaged ship, sunk in low water (and later towed out to sea and scuttled). These were all quickly earmarked for scrap and eventually side tracked for DP/Training use. Like the other example, these were also cleaned, and refurbished, painted and ‘restored’ to aesthetically ‘serviceable’ condition. Oh, they looked good but within a couple of years, these had started to rust from under the welds, seams and joints.

    And before I forget, let me remind you of something else too, JUST in case you’re tempted to buy one to use as spare parts. This is what the Armourers bible says. ‘……..it will be assembled as far as possible with components which are below the standard required for a service weapon’. And another thing you ought to remember. There were NO gauging limits for DP rifles. Mmmmmmm, food for thought there!

    That’s about it. In my very limited experience as an Armourer and having overseen some of these DP programmes, I can tell you with certainty that they were all profusely marked DP so that their status was unambiguous. Agreed, some might be taken straight from stocks, but the rest ……………

    Would YOU trust one? There certainly IS a place for a DP rifle in a collection as it forms a place in the lineage of the breed. But in the cupboard or rack or on the wall. NOT on the firing point.
    Cordite and Kerred36 like this.

  9. #9
    Member Tertle's Avatar
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    Im sorry, i know im going to bring a shitstorm here, but yes there are exceptions and that line "Agreed, some may have been taken straight from stocks, but the rest" is actually rather relevant. Ive two DP rifles, one a very early marked No4 that actually resembles the waimakariri riverbed in a drought (paid way too much for it too!!!) but....

    I purchased a DP No4mk1* 1943 DP Savage from the Defence Force Auction in Wellington in 2009, September 7th. It was when they sold off the cadet rifles, now if i can find the card and info sheet from the auction i should be able to prove providence But i do recall @gundoc sitting nearby when i purchased a number of rifles, but i digress! ive still got the No8 and No9 along with this No4, i never intended to get the No4 but that barrel!!!!!! the butt disk marked BA 771.

    The rifle i purchased has a pristine barrel, Woodwork is average but the bore in this rifle rivals a number of my Fultons or dedicated service rifles.

    i guess what im saying is get any rifle checked PROPERLY, especially if your going to shoot it, also if your a collector! as i know i wouldn't be selling this rifle as a cheap DP rifle, its got a bit of history and again that barrel, and no it wouldn't be a cheap rifle to buy!!!!!

    just my 2cents worth!!
    Winny100 likes this.
    www.allaboutenfields.co.nz dedicated to a great old rifle thatís still knocking them over!

  10. #10
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    I have rebuilt a large number of DP rifles over the years. The standard practice in NZ was to take the bolt head off, break off the last 1/4" of the firing pin, reassemble and apply the DP stamps. Serviceable rifles were used for this purpose when later models were being issued (eg; SMLE's when No4's were issued, No4's when L1A1 SLR's were issued, etc.). So long as the bolt number matches the rifle there should not be any problems other than fitting a new firing pin. Having said that, I always checked the headspace just to be sure.

    I well remember the 1988 Cadet Rifle auction and purchased a clump of rifles for the Canterbury Branch of the NZAHAA (and some for myself!).
    Tertle likes this.

  11. #11
    Member northdude's Avatar
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    Got a mate with a dp best shooter out of his no4s and mint bore

 

 

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