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Thread: Mannlicher Schoenauer rifles 1903 & 1910

  1. #1
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    Mannlicher Schoenauer rifles 1903 & 1910

    The 1903 is a Greek military conversion in 6.5X54MS. I restocked it with a piece of imported English Walnut. Barrel is dark & rough and will need a new barrel. I am selling it with the Watts Walnut bases and Leupold rings. Scope not included. No dies but about 40 or 50 cases (Norma & RWS) I want $1000 for it.

    Name:  MS Carbine New Stock Finished 4.JPG
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    The 1910 rifle is a take down model in 9.5X57MS made before 1924. Comes with dies, 90 cases (9.3X57 fire formed as well as some other formed cases - fired once or just formed). Has its own take down hard case from London Retailer.

    Very tidy rifle with good bore.

    Restocked with NZ walnut - CNC machined for takedown model. Oil finished. Very well balanced and handles perfectly.

    I want $2000 for the lot.

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    Tikka7mm08, ebf, john m and 2 others like this.

  2. #2
    Member Micky Duck's Avatar
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    very tidy indeed.
    Tommy likes this.

  3. #3
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    Hey that's different.. Not in the market, but how does the takedown system work? Gotta be the most elegant takedown rifle I've seen
    Identify your target beyond all doubt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    Hey that's different.. Not in the market, but how does the takedown system work? Gotta be the most elegant takedown rifle I've seen
    I too am interested in knowing how it separates. Gorgeous rifle.

  5. #5
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    So 3 grand for both?

  6. #6
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    @Nakihunter does your 1910 have a stamp indicating it is 9.5x57MS as it would be very unusal/rare.
    9.5X56MS is a factory Mannlicher caliber.
    So the short question is, is this a 9.5x57 using Mauser derived cases?

    Cheers

  7. #7
    Member Cordite's Avatar
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    Flip up rear sight hidden in the tang. Gun art.

    Name:  90469d1530507733-mannlicher-schoenauer-rifles-1903-1910-20180628_125231.jpg
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    Tommy, bing, 40mm and 1 others like this.
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    Sorry I have not checked for a while.

    To answer your questions.

    The 9.5X56MS is NOT a Mauser derived cartridge, though the 9.3X57 case has the same head space on the shoulder but it more tapered. You can form brass with 9.3X57 as I have done and some use 8X57 cases.

    The take down is purely a travel case arrangement for long sea journey during the colonial era and really meant for take down to the range of for a hunt. There are NO THROUGH BOLTS between stock and action. The tang is NOT a sight but a "Diopter tool". Normally it has 2 holes in a disc that can be rotated for 100 & 200 meters. It is an aid for sight alignment & not really a peep sight. That is the technical explanation give to me by a purist.

    This Diopter tool is connected to the tank VERY SOLIDLY by a through bolt from the rear of the trigger guard. Look at the threaded parton the left & the lip as well. The rear of the dipoter is just screwed firmly to the stock.

    https://i.imgur.com/iukn930.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/XjHq7uq.jpg

    This photo shows how the tang end of the action hooks under the diopter tool.

    https://i.imgur.com/qs3IQwM.jpg

    This photo shows an old stock with bedding & how the bottom latch of the rotary magazine locks the rifle to the stock. You can also see the small wing latch in front of the trigger guard that locks the magazine frame to the trigger guard.

    https://i.imgur.com/WxFlgX0.jpg

    The front of the Dipoter has a grooved upper lip & the back of the rifle action has a lower lip that hooks under the diporter. The rotary magazine is a solid locking mechanism that holds the rifle to the stock. There is a small wing latch in front of the trigger guard that further locks the magazine frame to the trigger guard and the stock. Finally, there is cross bolt across a lug on the barrel in the fore-end which completes the 4th point of locking the rifle to the stock.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Nakihunter; 06-09-2018 at 01:10 PM.
    john m likes this.

  9. #9
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    Price

    I have the rifles listed like this

    1903 - 6.5X54 MS with full stock - $1000 + $400 for the scope rings (no scope) & reloading gear including dies, 50 new brass. The rifle needs a new barrel & Alan Carr in Kapiti has the reamer and the skills to do the job well.

    The 1910 take down with dies & cases (Norma 9.3X57 fireformed & some 35 Whelen formed cases - total 90 cases) - $2k.

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    @Nakihunter you misread my question which was

    does your 1910 have a stamp indicating it is 9.5x57MS as it would be very unusal/rare.
    9.5X56MS is a factory Mannlicher caliber.
    So the short question is, is this a 9.5x57 using Mauser derived cases?


    You are advertising the caliber as 9.5x57MS which would be rare as 9.5x56MS is a common Mannlicher caliber.

    Does it have 9.5x57 stamped anywhere on the rifle?

  11. #11
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    Fireflite

    Sorry for the confusion.

    I do not remember the markings on the rifle and it is not with me at the moment. Fred Barnes' Cartridges of the World lists it as both 9.5X57MS & 9.5X56MS

    The cases I have are 2 sources - 35 Whelan formed from Buffalo Arms US & 9.3X57 Mauser Norma brass from Graeme Champion. That is the same head space on the shoulder but has more taper. So it was very easy to fire form with some shotgun powder and tissue paper.

  12. #12
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    Mannlicher Schönauer Takedown System

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    Hey that's different.. Not in the market, but how does the takedown system work? Gotta be the most elegant takedown rifle I've seen
    The 'factory' takedown system, as built by Steyr, on the Mannlicher Schönauer models of M1903, M1905, M1908, and M1910 was the same as used for the original (prototype) M1900 takedowns. It was a very simple system which employed a spring pin at the forend and a lever ahead of the trigger guard. Remove magazine, pull pin, turn lever, and the barreled action lifts neatly upward from the stock. Here is an image from the 1939 Stoeger Catalog:

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    This is my Grandfather holding one (M1910 MS Takedown) circa 1932:

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    This is how one fits in the original case:

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    Last edited by Rothhammer1; 15-04-2019 at 07:33 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireflite View Post
    @Nakihunter you misread my question which was

    does your 1910 have a stamp indicating it is 9.5x57MS as it would be very unusal/rare.
    9.5X56MS is a factory Mannlicher caliber.
    So the short question is, is this a 9.5x57 using Mauser derived cases?


    You are advertising the caliber as 9.5x57MS which would be rare as 9.5x56MS is a common Mannlicher caliber.

    Does it have 9.5x57 stamped anywhere on the rifle?
    The 9X57 Mauser [B]does not [B] interchange with the 9.5X57 Mannlicher Schönauer (nor does the 9X56 MS).

    The 9.5X57 Mannlicher Schönauer (MS) and 9.5X56 MS, however, are the very same cartridge. They also share the very same dimensions as the .375 Nitro Expresss Rimless 2.25", also known as .375RNE, though the original factory powder charges for the two were slightly different.

    The early models of Mannlicher Schönauer rifles and carbines each had their own proprietary MS cartridge. The first prototypes and sales samples (many attempts were made to garner lucratiive military contracts) were chambered in 6.5X54, as were the 'Greek Contract' military arms. The MS sporting rifles and stutzen were; M1903 - 6.5X54, M1905 - 9X56, M1908 - 8X56, M1910 - 9.5X57 (.375RNE).

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    Confusion tends to arise from the fact that different catalogs and references used different measuring points regarding cartridge measurements of that time. Notice the different designations given for some of the MS cartridges on this ballistics chart from the same 1939 Stoeger catalog as the above image:

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    Also, the only 'caliber' stampings on the early MS were among the Vienna Proof House marks and only denoted bullet width, i.e.. C6.5, C9., C8., C9.5 (the M1910).

    All M1910 Mannlicher Schönauer rifles and stutzen (fullstock carbines) were manufactured in 9.5X57 (A.K.A. 9.5X56, .375RNE, ...). Here is an Eley drawing of it:

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  14. #14
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    Hi ,
    Welcome to the forum.
    Can you tell me a bit more about the model 1900? Were they all take down? Is there as estimate of how many were produced and were they all in 6.5x54?
    Thanks
    Rothhammer1 likes this.

  15. #15
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    The M1900 is the most difficult of the MS about which to get accurate information.

    Basically, they originated as sales samples exhibited at the Paris Worlds Fair of 1900 and were subsequently 'shopped' to various governments in effort to obtain large contracts for military production. The only real success of that effort was the 'Greek Contract' series of Mannlicher Schönauers.

    Several fine British, German, and other gunmakers, however, took notice of the finely built actions and commenced to build their own sporting rifles around them (including other forms of 'takedown systems'. There are experts who assert that all M1900 sporting arms are shop built and that Steyr sold only barreled actions or complete military arms prior to 1903. Others disagree.

    The 'site NitroExpressForums has a wealth of information regarding Mannlicher Schönauer rifles and stutzen. A recent post to their Mannlicher Forum shows a member's recently acquired M1900 with the 'factory' takedown system. Most M1900 are not in the 'takedown' format, and as the M1900 recently posted on NE has the 'early style' cartridge release button, is seems to be evidence of early production of MS sporting rifles at Steyr.


    All original M1900 and M1903 actions were chambered in 6.5X54 at the Steyr Factory.

 

 

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