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Good evening (or whatever time of day you find yourself reading this)
I am after some information as to what equipment (rifle and optic setup) the local police may have used in the 1970s or 1980s
Im trying to find info regarding grandads rifle
A 70s brno zkk601 .223
Any help would be much appreciated
Peter
Pretty sure they were using sako vixen 222’s and later remington model 7 223’s
Ive never herd anything about 601’s being used
Could be Wrong
I was told by an older, retired AOS guy that they used Brno's before the Sako's came on the scene. And have seen a couple come up for sale over the years where the seller has stated they were ex NZ Police issue.
Yes, the .223 BRNO's were ex NZ Police and were sold in the late 70's from memory. They were sold because Police training was a hangover from the old .303 days and they never took into account the controlled Mauser extractor which meant rounds had to be fed from the magazine. They had a lot of problems with broken extractors and jammed rifles from heavy-handed cops trying drop in a loose round and forcing the bolt closed. There was nothing wrong with the rifles, just the training. I converted a good number of them to .22/250 as the magazines were long enough to work very well.
I had one in 22/250. Never fed properly. Sold it.
I was AOS in early seventies. The rifles I recall using were three ohs, probably Mk4 #1, then we had .222 before moving to .223. The sidearms were S&W .38. The sidearm was most accurate when you threw it at something. I could tell you stories about fat fingered guys, Mauser actions and unlawful discharges, but will let you create your own visions.
Greetings All,
I had one of the Brno .223 rifles in the 1980's and 1990,s. Mine had the non cheek piece stock and a standard trigger. It also had seen quite a bit of use with a long throat and a burn ring on the bolt face. My rifle had the number 10 stamped under the fore end and still had its pop up aperture sight. I was told at the time that the police had used 5.56 military ammo which is too hot for the .223 chamber and caused problems. I used mine for shooting targets, hares and a lot of goats. Accuracy was reasonable but nowhere as good as the two .223 rifles that replaced it.
Regards Grandpamac.
Thanks for all the input. The rumors are true then.
Its a lovely looking rifle and smooth to operate but doesnt seem to like the ammo my howa .223 shoots well. Id like to start hand loading for both but thats a discussion for another time.
Thats very interesting and believable! Haha
Do you happen to know what scopes the police fitted to them? Mine has a "wilhem fogproof 4 power" on it currently and its not great to use. So im thinking of fitting an equally beat up old leupold vari x to it as it would look "right" but id like to get back to the wat it was in 1973
Thanks in advance
QUOTE Ingrid 51....” The sidearms were S&W .38. The sidearm was most accurate when you threw it at something.”
..........CLASSIC!!!!!!!
There was nothing inaccurate about the S&W .38's, just very poor training and operator error. The revolvers were perfectly capable of 3-4" groups at 50 metres under ideal circumstances. I have a target I shot, 3 shots standing, double action at 10 metres, into one hole. The AOS members had brought it to me (it was one of a batch of S&W revolvers I had sold to the Police) complaining that it couldn't hit a figure target at 10 metres. I started training some AOS guys in my indoor range at work in advanced pistol techniques and was starting to get some good results when the word came down from PNHQ that I was to cease and desist immediately as my training clashed with official doctrine. Ain't bureaucracy a wonderful thing!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingrid 51
Love that comment Gundoc as it rings true. Our “training” was almost non existent. Even in my latter years, when invited by an IPSC mate to try one of his race guns, I get censured for incorrect hand positioning and aiming. Re optics on long guns...I cannot recall what they were, or in fact if every squaddie had scopes.
Re your being warned by HQ to back off...I once challenged a method used and was told to “shut up; we have been doing it this way since the days of armed militia!” There was very little scope for innovative thinking then.
Your last sentence still applies at times...of course if the ‘innovative thinking’ emanates from somebody of rank it’s a different story.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Ingrid 51
Greetings DCN808T,Quote:
Originally Posted by DCN808T
Mine did not shoot the 55 grain projectiles all that well. 1MoA would be about the best. The throat on mine was just too long. I bought a box of Speer 70 grain semi point projectiles that would have worked better but regrettably never tried then. I don't think mine had ever been scoped as the aperture sight was still on it. The scope needed to be mounted in high rings to clear the bolt handle which with the low comb caused some problems. Later I ground the bolt handle to clear a low scope which helped. The ground area was polished and blued so I am not a total heathen. The big mag which held about 8 rounds from memory was a great help on goats. Enjoy yours.
Regards Grandpamac.
@grandpamac 8 shots. Geez that would be a great little gun for that sort of work. @gundoc hard to believe that the cops actually wouldnt want advice to be better especially in a situation where firearms are involved.
Ah wait, sorry. That sounds exactly like the coppers
I found the Vixens mag could hold six rounds - and you could still fit one ‘up the spout’.
Greetings Csmiffy,Quote:
Originally Posted by csmiffy
The action was intended for the .308, .243 and the like plus is had a dropped mag. I think this is the right term where the floor plate is part way down the front of the trigger guard. You see this on African rifles for the big fat cartridges. It might have been 7 but it was more than the 5 for my VSSF and 4 in the T3. It was a nice rifle but not up to the NZDA target shooting I was doing when I sold it and got the VSSF.
Regards Grandpamac.
Would an ex-police rifle qualify for classic service rifle class��
Probably not as fun as the Enfield but certainly cheaper to feed and more shoulder friendly.
I also have one of these that was used by a country cop that had approximately 50-100 rounds max through it when purchased.Still has the pop up sight.
Lovely little rifle thats accounted for a few thousand goats and the odd deer. Other than a a couple of boxs of military solids its lived most of its life being feed hornady 60gr SP reloads, Now days its on 64 grain federals for ease of buying. One rifle i'd never sell for sentimental reasons plus shoots better still than i can hold it.
My mate had one of the Brno's. His was a 222 even though the plate in the magazine was stamped 223. Was an accurate rifle.
I too have one in that configuration. Not sure what the deal is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanny
I will be trying those today then! Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trissaayne
Did yours have any optics mounted to it?
I understan that feeling of sentiment. This one had too is an heirloom. Odd, coz i dont have kids!
Interesting point there.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteD
Dont know. I should really find out
Thanks for thatQuote:
Originally Posted by grandpamac
I was hoping to get it shooting through the same hole at 100m but I doubt it could do that no matter how hard someone, that can actually shoot, tried.
Try and slide a business card under the barrel all the way along to the receiver ring.Quote:
Originally Posted by DCN808T
I have come across 3 Brno 601s that had high spots on the inletting for the barrel channel. 5 minutes with some sand paper would fix that problem
This was my first rifle given to me by my father for my 17th birthday, had a hair trigger and I loved the 8 shot mag. In the 10yrs I had it I probably shot in excess of 400 deer with it selling most of them to mair venison, years later for mainly sentimental reasons I often regret getting rid of it
Mine came without optics, i think all/most of them were sold bare of optics. Was my first centrefire and been on so many memorable trips now its like one of the family. It was when we first had it able to do multiple touching shots down at the range with the right shooter. No that shooter wasnt me but a old now deceased friend that used to target shoot and who did all the reloading for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DCN808T
I stand to be corrected, but pretty damn sure the AOS Brno 601's were never issued with optics, just the factory pop up peep.Similarly the successor vixens issued with rear tangent sights.Seem to recall the Head Office rationale circa early 1970,s with the then general poor quality of scopes, was that irons were more reliable.
Yeah there is no gap between forestock and barrel. Best i get that sorted ey?!Quote:
Originally Posted by norsk
Would double check it first, some of the older rifles were stocked with a deliberate bump to put upwards pressure on the barrel.Quote:
Originally Posted by DCN808T
Have seen this myself on an old Sako and due to the location and size of the bump I suspect they used a 'one size fits all' approach to barrel harmonics, might have actually worked with a particular factory loading which the rifle was sold with at the time.
Lee Enfields were mostly stocked with upward pressure on the barrel and they seem to shoot OK...ish...
Yep, my old Sako Forester when new had a sharpish ridge of wood under the barrel in the fore end. I glass bedded the action and free floated the barrel.Quote:
Originally Posted by caberslash
Did that improve it noticeably?Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmer
They were designed that way , the pressure under the barrel at the fore stock is to make up for the poor bedding of the action . Free floating the barrel and bedding the action can show better results? , but there is no guarantee it will shoot better than as it is now .Quote:
Originally Posted by DCN808T