222 vs 22-250

One of my many musings that i do from time to time
Considering the good things that fast twist 222/223s are doing with the heavier projectiles is doing the same thing with a 22-250 more of a good thing or just not required?
Or is it just getting too close to a lighter projectile 243?
I suppose the light 243 bullets are generally varmint whereas the heavy 22s are more deery?
The heavies work in a 222 but get pushed too hard by the 250?
22-250 is fatter, less in the mag, more powder, potentially a slightly bigger action?
Pros and cons?

@Tararuas hunter would be a great person to ask for pros & cons. He used a fast tight-twist .22 for many years and has moved to a 6mm I think, for reasons he may be willing to share?

222/223 will go in a mini action but unless it's a Howa or a CZ, it's going to be something like a Remmy or a Tikka with the same footprint action that is used for larger cartridges like 22-250/308.

Factory twist rates on 22-250's are pretty slow and limit you to 50/55gr projectiles bar a couple of exceptions. The heavy pointy bullets like the 69/75/77gr from the 1:8 twist 223's definitely cheat the wind a lot better and begin to out-perform the lightweight bullets from the 22-250 as the range increases. Should note that 222's typically also have the same slow twist rates as 22-250's do.

But if you get a fast twist in a 22-250 then it's a different beast altogether. I have a 22-250AI and am lobbing out 88gr ELD's at up to 3300. 223 can't come close to the ballistics and energy of that downrange. It's even flatter shooting than my mates 6mm race gun. The trade-offs of course are barrel life and ammo cost.

It depends how good of a shot you are as to weather the extra trajectory is useful. There are blokes who can head shoot deer at 200 mtrs with 22 250's and 300 with a rest

My real world thoughts..... where barrel life and ammo cost (even reloaded) matters. A fast twist 222 (which is probably a rebarrel job) or 223 (available off the shelf) with a heavier proj will do pretty much all of what a 22-250 will and last longer to boot. From ~500m onwards they are near enough the same even no matter what you use, but 22 cal at that distance is getting close to lunacy in any event. I shoot my 223, my son's 222, and a mate's 22-250 on a regular basis. On paper at 200m the 22-250 wins by a small margin with my not terribly good marksmanship skills, the 223 and 222 are pretty much even. On things that need to fall over and not run away I haven't noticed a difference, admittedly with light weight projs in the 22-250 - we sometimes play swap a rifle and the better results follow the better shooter. I remember reading somewhere that "You don't need more than one 22 cal centrefire in your safe", and the more I get a chance to shoot various 22 cal cartridges the more I believe that statement.

Footnote - 1500 rounds saw the 22-250 barrel well and truly dead.

My first 22/250 went toast before that. Mainly from goat culling. It was an LSA 55 and it was no mean feat bombing mobs with a single stack mag and then single feeding.

Accuracy dropped off bigtime so one day I decided to recheck the seating depth and to my horror found a projectile just seated by the skin of its teeth was well short of any rifling. It had been fun whilst it lasted.

I shot just about anything that moved with that gun, youthful madness. Most impressive at night with great muzzle flash.

You burn a shit load more powder in a 22/250 for not much gain over a 223.

Have another 22/250 these days and a 223. Love the 223. Haven't fired the 22/250 for a few years.

I love my .223 and have shot a shed load of animals with it....inherited a .22-250 and it is a hell of a lot of fun popping hares off out to 250 yards with no holdover at all....have just spent the $$$ and made it civilised with a DPT can.....I can see it coming along more often now...it is polar opposite of the .223. which is short and light ish...the bull barrel 700 could never be called either,yet Ive carted it up hill and down dale a couple of times without too much issue. sure makes a fella appreciate light rifle afterwards.

would I want a fast twist .22 centrefire??? nope...if I want to chuck 80grn projectiles I would buy a 243 and I nearly down that low with .270 with 110s.

I just bought a new 22.250 here in Australia, I wanted a .224 Valkyrie but couldn't source one since then I've found someone with a reamer so my plan is to shoot out the barrel and rebarrel in a .224 Valkyrie, the places I have permission to shoot are 300 yd plus stuff so I wanted exrta horsepower.

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Originally Posted by nor-west

I just bought a new 22.250 here in Australia, I wanted a .224 Valkyrie but couldn't source one since then I've found someone with a reamer so my plan is to shoot out the barrel and rebarrel in a .224 Valkyrie, the places I have permission to shoot are 300 yd plus stuff so I wanted exrta horsepower.

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You are on fire!

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I love my .223 and have shot a shed load of animals with it....inherited a .22-250 and it is a hell of a lot of fun popping hares off out to 250 yards with no holdover at all....have just spent the $$$ and made it civilised with a DPT can.....I can see it coming along more often now...it is polar opposite of the .223. which is short and light ish...the bull barrel 700 could never be called either,yet Ive carted it up hill and down dale a couple of times without too much issue. sure makes a fella appreciate light rifle afterwards.

would I want a fast twist .22 centrefire??? nope...if I want to chuck 80grn projectiles I would buy a 243 and I nearly down that low with .270 with 110s.

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Agreed. Which to a point applies to a fast twist 22-250.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I love my .223 and have shot a shed load of animals with it....inherited a .22-250 and it is a hell of a lot of fun popping hares off out to 250 yards with no holdover at all....have just spent the $$$ and made it civilised with a DPT can.....I can see it coming along more often now...it is polar opposite of the .223. which is short and light ish...the bull barrel 700 could never be called either,yet Ive carted it up hill and down dale a couple of times without too much issue. sure makes a fella appreciate light rifle afterwards.

would I want a fast twist .22 centrefire??? nope...if I want to chuck 80grn projectiles I would buy a 243 and I nearly down that low with .270 with 110s.

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Do you use your 22 250 on deer and if so what are your thoughts MD

Its probably been covered, but most 22-250 are 1/14 twist which limits them in bullet weight. I had one and it wouldn't stabilise 60 grn. I shot the barrel out using 55 grn at 3,500fps on hares, goats and deer.

A 22-250 and 55 grn projectiles is no better on deer than a .223 and 55 grn.

A fast twist .223 shooting 75/80 grn bullets at 2,800/2,900 fps eats a 22.250 with 55 grn bullets at 3,500 fps on deer.

A fast twist 22.250 shooting 75/80 grn bullets at 3,300 fps eats a 223 with anything. But a fast twist 22.250 is rare. You are using twice as much powder, increasing the bang, and might just as well step up to a 243 or something bigger.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Its probably been covered, but most 22-250 are 1/14 twist which limits them in bullet weight. I had one and it wouldn't stabilise 60 grn. I shot the barrel out using 55 grn at 3,500fps on hares, goats and deer.

A 22-250 and 55 grn projectiles is no better on deer than a .223 and 55 grn.

A fast twist .223 shooting 75/80 grn bullets at 2,800/2,900 fps eats a 22.250 with 55 grn bullets at 3,500 fps on deer.

A fast twist 22.250 shooting 75/80 grn bullets at 3,300 fps eats a 223 with anything. But a fast twist 22.250 is rare. You are using twice as much powder, increasing the bang, and might just as well step up to a 243 or something bigger.

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@Tahr what distances can you you deer out to with a 223

Thar shootem much further than me...he gets a lot more chances...now me,I limit myself to 150ish yards with .223 the 22-250 I will limit to 200ish... I just got back from rezeroing it after fitting a DPT holy smoke what a difference. still shoots much better than I can.
both dont get fed anything heavier than 60 grns...normally just 50 grns.
feed them a 50grn ttsx and its a huge step up in penertration... no worries to shoot deer or pig using those.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Its probably been covered, but most 22-250 are 1/14 twist which limits them in bullet weight. I had one and it wouldn't stabilise 60 grn. I shot the barrel out using 55 grn at 3,500fps on hares, goats and deer.

A 22-250 and 55 grn projectiles is no better on deer than a .223 and 55 grn.

A fast twist .223 shooting 75/80 grn bullets at 2,800/2,900 fps eats a 22.250 with 55 grn bullets at 3,500 fps on deer.

A fast twist 22.250 shooting 75/80 grn bullets at 3,300 fps eats a 223 with anything. But a fast twist 22.250 is rare. You are using twice as much powder, increasing the bang, and might just as well step up to a 243 or something bigger.

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@Tahr and that is sort of where i was going. Mind you if you had a fast twist 22-250 you can always go back down to the 55s if you want. That gets a bit tough with the 243

as for how 22-250 works on deer...well if trying to finish animal at 20 yards and hit in in kidneys...lets just say its messy.
they are my nemesis animal,other than the very first one I shot years ago...havent managed a single shot kill since. not sure why...it just happens,and its not buck fever as really are soso,hohum about them Vs love reds.... maybe Im too relaxed and dont take it seriously enough.
will endevour to make the next one a single shot clean kill..... Im using half as much powder again over 223...eg 34 grns Vs 24 grns but with suppressor noise is same...Im stoked about that.

you will need to be careful with fast twist 22-250 if dropping down to 55grns,you could end up with them not reaching target as the G forses will be extreme. a 40grn in slow twist is explosive to say the least.... a 55grn at 3500 fps and twist of 1-9 would be really hard on projectile to keep together.

Good info MD

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Originally Posted by csmiffy

@Tahr and that is sort of where i was going. Mind you if you had a fast twist 22-250 you can always go back down to the 55s if you want. That gets a bit tough with the 243

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You can (could) get 6mm 58 gn vmaxes

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Originally Posted by 7mm Rem Mag

@Tahr what distances can you you deer out to with a 223

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Comfortable on settled deer out to 300 yards with 55 grain and up. Have shot them further. Feel most confident when they are settled, broadside, and Im using 69grn and up. You have to be very comfortable that the bullet will go where you want so wind is a limiter. Lots of range time and trajectory validating too. If you are "aim and hope" don't use a .223. Its a precision caliber that rewards a rational careful approach.
And make no mistake, Ive had some distasters in the past that Im not very proud of. Er on the side of caution.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Comfortable on settled deer out to 300 yards with 55 grain and up. Have shot them further. Feel most confident when they are settled, broadside, and Im using 69grn and up. You have to be very comfortable that the bullet will go where you want so wind is a limiter. Lots of range time and trajectory validating too. If you are "aim and hope" don't use a .223. Its a precision caliber that rewards a rational careful approach.
And make no mistake, Ive had some distasters in the past that Im not very proud of. Er on the side of caution.

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More...after a couple of very nice wines.

This was at 311 yards. Very accurate Model 7. 69 grn Targex that I have shot hundreds of game with. Know the trajectory well and validated, and this was at the end of the day after shooting 40 odd wallaby so I was sort of in the groove. Reliable 6-24 scope on 24 power. Good solid bipod rest. No wind. Great light.

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Attachment 191758

Thanks for the info Tahr

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Originally Posted by Tahr

More...after a couple of very nice wines.

This was at 311 yards. Very accurate Model 7. 69 grn Targex that I have shot hundreds of game with. Know the trajectory well and validated, and this was at the end of the day after shooting 40 odd wallaby so I was sort of in the groove. Reliable 6-24 scope on 24 power. Good solid bipod rest. No wind. Great light.

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Attachment 191758

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Hey Tahr - does your M7 have a 1:12 or 1:9 twist to stabilise the 69's Thanks

There was very good article in NZ Guns [think the dude was called Clark] who wrote an informative piece on a fast twist 22-250.

It would have to be 1:9 or faster to stableise bullets that heavy, a friend's savage in 1:9 wI'll shoot 69 match kings accurately to 100 m but by 200 they have slowed enough to become unstable but will happily handle the shorter gameking 65 grain ones.

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Originally Posted by Tentman

Hey Tahr - does your M7 have a 1:12 or 1:9 twist to stabilise the 69's Thanks

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1:9