I've seen the odd box of factory ammo on dealers shelves over the years...the last box I saw for sale was some Hornady 180 grain.....is there still an availability in NZ ? Cheers.....
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I've seen the odd box of factory ammo on dealers shelves over the years...the last box I saw for sale was some Hornady 180 grain.....is there still an availability in NZ ? Cheers.....
I think I used the last of mine back in Peking, during the Summer of 1900.......;>)
Greetings,
The last ones I saw were at Collings and Brady sometime in the 1990's. They were loaded by them for No 4 Lee Enfields they had rebarrelled to .30-40 using take off target barrels. You can easily reform .303 cases to .30-40 although they do come up a bit short. The .30-40 was a blatant copy of the .303. I did have a bit of trouble with thick shoulders on some WW cases. You could probably set the shoulder back with a .308 die and fire form although I have not tried it. Reformed cases and 150 grain RN projectiles shoot really well through my .30-40 Martini in spite of the long neck, reduced loads mind.
Regards Grandpamac.
I have a new bag of Winchester brass some where here, was going to form 375Ex out of it but still a bit short as I remember ?
The krag rifles probably have the smoothest action of any bolt gun better even than the Lee.
I have owned a few .30-40's over the years and found that Remington ammo was the most commonly available in NZ. A good round with virtually identical ballistics to the .303.
Greetings All,
To Mangle I am fascinated by your initial post. Do you have a lovely old .30-40 Krag of some type? Or perhaps a burning desire to own a rifle so chambered? Or just curious?
There was a Ruger No 3 carbine in .30-40 listed in the for sale section of Rod and Rifle years back that I procrastinated over buying for too long. There were also some Browning M95 lever actions available in the same calibre plus semi custom single shot rifles likely still available. Please share.
Regards Grandpamac (.30-40 nut).
I had a P14 chambered in 30-40 krag and it shot well.
I say if you have found one you want, then buy it. If you dont you will regret not buying it.
Yes definitely do that Mangle,
Mine is on a Martini action so I keep the loads well down on an action that is coming up 140 years old next year. And yes it does go hunting from time to time. In final recommendation I can think of no better words than those of Dinny himself. A friend of mine asked him "What would I get from rechambering my 8mm to 8mm-06"? To which the sage replied "Nothing really. Only the eminent satisfaction of being a contrary bastard". Based on that sound advice the rifle was rechambered. What more is there to say?
Regards Grandpamac.
And lot of Yanks returning from WWII with war trophies also got shootable rifles back home with no 8x57 available there.
I wonder long after if there was regret doing this rechambering given what K98s ended up being worth.
Greetings Zimmer,
The rifle in question had already been altered at that stage but yes many rifles were butchered and we would like some of them back. We can still enjoy the slightly butchered ones as they are much cheaper than pristine examples these days. There are two .303 No 4 rifles in my cupboard. One could be returned, more or less to original but the other is way past that. Neither cost that much.
Regards Grandpamac.
Not a consideration at the time there were squillions of them and no one thought that far ahead. These guys wanted a hunting rifle and the 806 ticked the box.
Bits of Kar 98s turned up in a hell of a lot of English sporting rifles after the war, the sparkbrook cache provided lots of parts for parker hales, for example my safari has a little waffenamph on the magazine follower.
No criticism intended Grandpamac.
It's funny, 20 years ago I couldn't wait to get rid of the last of my 30s. All range rifles. I'd also owned ex rifle club SMLEs at one stage. They were sold and cut down.
My pristine 2 groover No 4 I sold to a "mate". Some years later I was horrified to see it in the local gun shop, all cut down. I guess I had no complaint, he was the owner, but it wasn't his intension of doing that when he twisted my arm to sell.
My last to go was my Fazakerley '54 Fulton.
Now wish I had at least kept the 2 groover.
Sgt Schultz on Hogan’s Heroes uses a Krag-Jorgenson, what more recommendation do you need?:D
Interestingly, my Speer No 7 manual (c 1967) listed loads for the 8mm/06. Not sure how long this continued in later manuals.
Attachment 152660
Greetings Again Zimmer,
Years ago I picked up a practically new two groove .303 barrel for 10 bucks. I didn't have a .303 at the time and neither did I intend to get one. It was that cheap. Fast forward until a year or so back and a No 4 .303 that had been owned by a departed came to stay it shot well but the barrel was horrid. It also had been cut down and modified almost beyond recognition. The 10 dollar barrel was screwed in, shot even better so all is well. It too goes on gentlemen's hours walks in the bush and will stay here as long as I am around.
No offence taken. I mourn the loss of some of those rifles as well.
Regards Grandpamac.
It is still in the No 9 manual but the loads have been dialed back heaps. Their max load for 4064 powder and the 125 grain projectile was 55 grains in the number 9 manual v 60 grains in the No7. Those No 7 loads really were from the intrepid years. The hairs on the back of my neck stand up just looking at them.
Grandpamac.
And presumably no one died. The trend of cutting back on loads in manuals seems to be common now driven by lawyers I suspect, though in some cases with actions and barrels now approaching 100 a xautious approach may be warranted. Still it's surprising the number of guys I know with Carl Gustav 6.5x55s made before 1920 as their main hunting rifle using Norma factory. Those rifles must be tough old bastards like their owners.
Greetings All,
Perhaps no one died using loads from the intrepid years but some lost eyes, parts of their face and hands. Reloading manuals prior to about 1975 were mostly worked up using traditional pressure reading methods and resulted in loads that were well over max pressures. Early Speer manuals have been quoted as having very high pressures. I note that the 8mm-06 data has been re shot, for the No 9 manual, with Winchester rather than the previous military cases. These latter were noted to be hard in the head, possibly to add safety with the Springfield coned breech. Denver brass was sought out by handloaders as especially hard. I don't believe for a minute that the reduction in the No9 data was lawyer mandated. It was just a realisation of how close to disaster they had got.
I am not suggesting that some of the recent published data is not showing an excess of caution. I was looking through data for the 7mm Rem Mag the other day and found that the on line data from Nosler is practically identical to that in their no 1 manual from the 1970's and the Hodgdon data was a tad lower.
Regards Grandpamac.
Attachment 152847
I have heeded all the good advice and after channeling my inner contrary bastardness have applied some of my usual logic by buying a box of ammo....now I'm committed to getting me a 30-40....I'll keep you all posted....I'll shoot a few deer with it and wont worry in the slightest about the rifle costing $400 or the rainbow trajectory or the lack of power...I'll keep you all posted...cheers
Well done Mangle,
A CBR (contrary bastard rifle) does not have to be used all the time. It can be brought out on special occasions to impress the gullible. A custom history for the rifle can be created for that purpose. Between you and me if by Enfield you mean a P14 or M17 rather than a Lee Enfield they can be loaded close to .308 ballistics but don't tell anyone.
Regards an impressed Grandpamac.
Grandpamac I will keep you posted...it is a very ordinary SMLE but I have a good feeling about where this is heading and already feel the need for another CBR, perhaps a 303-25... always wanted one of those...then a 308 Souper or 308-25 but that's another story.....to be continued..
Greetings Mangle,
One thing that is probably worth doing once you get your hands on it is to measure the barrel twist. It may be as slow as 1 in 14 inches. This would limit your choice of projectiles so it would be good to know sooner rather than later.
Regards Grandpamac.
Greetings Mangle,
Thinking about the above post I realised I should have given rather more background so here it is.
Many Lee Enfield and other .303 rifles have been re barreled with take out target barrels from the days when the standard NRA target pill was a 146 grain boat tail FMJ. These were pretty crappy bullets but shot well in slow twist, tight groove barrels. The accuracy life of the barrels was quite short, barely 1,000 rounds with that pill. These barrels piled up in gunsmiths and target shooters sheds and someone, perhaps more than one, got the idea to re barrel the piles of .303 rifles with these barrels chambered for .30-40 Krag. The breech end was cut off so the worn bit wound up in the scrap bin leaving the barrels damn near new.
The slow twists however will not stabilise really long projectiles. Projectile stability is however determined by projectile length not weight and the 146 grain projectile is about 28 mm long. This is longer than any flat base round nose projectile up to 180 grains and flat base spire points up to about 165. My Martini Krag has a 1 in 12 inch twist and your rifle may do as well. Let me know when you are ready to load for it and I will send such data as I have. No point on starting from scratch again. My Martini shoots the 150 grain FB RN into about 1 MoA.
Regards Grandpamac.
Grandpa Mac I owe you big time...what an absolute legend sharing this with me....I appreciate this so much...Slainte !
Awwwwwwwwwwwww. As I have a nice example of a P14,
Attachment 153115
don't be coy. Please Share the load.
Greetings Mangle,
Wet day yesterday and started thinking what projectile would stabilise in a 1 in 14 inch twist. I have two .308 target rifles with 1 in 14 inch twists so this was for me as much as you. Stability of projectiles is governed by length and to a lesser extent velocity. I had a fumble around in my .30 calibre projectile supplies and measured the length of what I had plus calculated the length of others. Next the length of the 180 grain Hornady Interlock Flat Base was run through one of the on line ballistic calculators. I suspect that the cartridges you purchased are loaded with this projectile. Turns out the Hornady ILFB is marginally stable in the 1 in 14 twist so should give reasonable accuracy, 165 grains would be better. Boat tail projectiles would be marginal from 150 grains up but round nose projectiles up to 180 grain should shoot well. All this is much in line with my previous wild arse guess and only applies if your twist is 1 in 14 inches. 1 in 10 or 1 in 12 twists should stabilise everything.
Regards Grandpamac.