Thread: Is the 303 obsolete?

Originally Posted by Tahr

The cullers had no way of measuring 800 yards, so thats where the myths came from.

I saw it proven at Wakarara in december 1974 by 2 old cullers including Jim Borrie who was ground shooting in the Ruahines up to his 50's. A local farmer set up the test and it was measured out. Stopped alot of argument thereafter at the Onga pub. The person I was with was Bob Jeffares who was not known to exaggerate and who gleefully had a lot of free beer over it. 2c.

I stopped using a 303 in 1982 because the rem Mohawk in 308 was availiable.

The Tarns on top of studholme saddle in the kawekas were my only water source up there and I often found them frozen up, interestingly if you found a suitable vantage point to shoot from and looked around you often found empty 303 brass nearby, proving that some old coot had been there before you, the 303 must have been popular for a bloody long time

Shot this one in Arthur's pass last time I was home.

I'd buy an old 308. Ammo, components will be far more common, cheaper.

OR, 270, 30.06, 243, 30.30

Well I've got a 7.62x39 break open....I haven't fired it in anger yet....if my friendly gunsmith happens to have 303 British dies on hand and isn't intending to charge me the world......it might just get converted...maybe.

Nope buy mine

Years back, not far past Kiwi Saddle I found a .303 Savage case that had been fired in a .303 British. It was ruptured on one side as expected and was on the ground in a spot where a shot could have been taken so whoever fired it may have ejected the case without knowing their mistake. I have often wondered if he hit anything.
GPM.

Similar ammunition problems as my 45-70, But now Hornady has a suitable factory bullet it’s just down to the fit out of the rifle, scope etc as mentioned earlier. They just don’t perform without hand loading. ‘ for a beginner…
Buy a second hand 308 all set up and you will probably get your money back when you’re finished with it!
Small investment could change there life, keep it plain sailing

Why would you bother with a clapped out 303. a more modern rifle is not much more and will save you the hassle of trying to offload the 303 down the road

Originally Posted by SmokeyJason

Tell that to Daniel Boone, those long muskets are a longway off the modern trend the girls carry now.

But they can still shoot well at 1000yds

I thought they were obsolete in 1979 when I sold mine and bought a 243

Any critter in this country won't care if it gets shot with a .303 British or the latest .291 Whatsit.

The issue would be getting a decent rifle that hasn't had its bore stuffed by Corrosive Primer Salts from 50+ years of being fed drilled out Mk VII Ball and never cleaned. The cartridge may be considered on the way out for hunting use in NZ, but there are much better options for rifles now than in the 1960s. A butchered Lee Enfield doesn't have to be anyones first choice for a hunting rifle anymore.

If your mate can afford it, he'd be better placed in the long run with a modern (ish) second hand .308, 7-08, or .30-06 that has been looked after - it will last a life-time if he looks after it too.

If he WANTS a .303 for his own reasons, and recognises the limitations then more power to him - thats his choice and to bollocks what the rest of us think!

I rang the heart/lung plate on a deer target, 5 out of 5 at 800 metres at a long-range high country shoot in 2012 with a Lee-Enfield, but it had been rebarrelled to .308. It did, however, prove the capability of the rifle and the .303 is certainly accurate to further than that.

What many are forgetting is the 303 is a piece of our deer culling history, its almost like its kiwiana.
Sure, it might not be your go to rifle, but it gets the job done, a great deal of kiwis have started out with 303.
Every gun safe in NZ should have at least 1 in it!

Originally Posted by PeteD

The price and availability of .303 ammo may be the biggest issue.

Adding things like scopes and suppressors may also be difficult.
There are second hand remingtons, mossberg etc out there that will offer superior performance and ammo selection.

You can pick them up at gun shows for cheap or at club auctions on a regular basis. Take a spare round with you and stick it in the barrel, if you see a good 3mm or more between the neck and the muzzle, then chances are you have a decent enough barrel.
Barrels can be found cheap anyway, ive picked several up for $20 each at shows, but have paid more for a more desirable H barrel.

Im getting 1 inch groupings at 50m with a lithgow barrel i paid $25 for. Its likely had a hard life, but the bore gauge measured it very tight for a 303. Im still yet to fully clean the years of copper fouling out of it.
Even with years of corrosive cordite ammo through it and little cleaning, still provides me an accurate gun.
Scope mounting should be simple enough, most sporters out there will have a parker hale rail.
Dont look for one thats not drilled, get one with the mounts fitted, and you will be good to go.
I have been looking for a side mount rail for a gun that was drilled on the side and couldnt find a mount for it, there are some oddball mounts out there.

Originally Posted by Pommy

Bit of a black or white absolutist question.

What makes a cartridge obsolete? When you cannot buy new rifles chambered in it? In which case yes (not counting the Ruger #1). When ammo companies stop making ammo for it? In which case no. When it's no longer issued by any military/service? In which case pretty much unless you're a Bangladeshi police officer.

Like Tentman says, ballistics of the cartridge are close to that of 308 Win. But the <$200 TradeMe specials that shoot it are a +/- century old and odds are they are pretty well clapped out. If you want something that will hold its own against a modern, scoped, bolt action rifle you will need to up your budget or revise your plan.

Agreed, the cartridge really has nothing to do with it, ballistics are everything, and yes its comparable to 308, different shape cartridge, but similar capacity of charge.
The biggest differences really come down to barrels and age.
most 308 rifles will be far more modern than an SMLE and not only newer technology when it comes to rifling etc, but less wear and no barrel or throat corrosion etc.
That being said, just look out for a good rifle, they can still be found for cheap if you know your stuff.
There are plenty of helpful older people in the clubs that will give advice or point you to someone who has a rifle for sale.

Originally Posted by csmiffy

It's a tough one. Cheap 303s don't necessarily mean a good rifle. Big difference nowadays is there is bugger all cheap ammo about. Even winchester 180gr powerpoint is 80 nicker a packet. Not a lot to pick from. 30.years back it was a biggish jump to a second hand centerfire that was anywhere close price wise.
Nowadays not so much. Obsolete? Definitely not.
Cost effective, yeah well....

Ammo is still found for cheap, the guy in our store says even the HXP ammo will take down a deer happily, although soft point is ideally better.
As others say, reloading is the way to go if you plan on shooting alot.
I think the whole market for hunting ammo is a total ripoff anyway.
Just looking at whats available at gun city, there is a far wider range of 308 available compared to 303, however, while a pack of winchester super-X will set you back about $100, the overall average price is less than what 308 would cost.
For example you can get PPU 180grain for only $65, the cheapest soft point 308 offering(PMC) at GC is essentially $60
You also have the added bonus of reusing the brass for reloading, PPU is the best available on the market today.
I see hornady do 303 too, but not sure if they make the brass anymore.
The main advantage with 308 ammo selection that i can see is the wide range available, polymer tips, etc.
But if you reload, you have these options at your disposal.

Won a Remington Model-7 in 7mm08 back in 1996 in a hunting competition. I was using a sporter No4 Mk1 and CAC military 303 ammo. Still have both guns and would never have switched if I hadn`t won the 7mm08.