45/70 SUBS

Hi guys .. I'm after a bit of advice on previous experience using 45/70 subsonic rounds. As some of you may know I am a bit of a fan of 45/70 but find the mighty SBL a bit noisy in the tight confines of the bush. I don't want to modify the beauty by chopping it up to add a surpressor so have been considering a bergara single shot to surpress. I have spoken to a few people who have all tried their best to put me off the idea. Rainbow trajectory etc etc.
I would be using the new Hornady subs as I don't reload. They are 420gr and are advertised at 1050 fps. They would be used short range only and maybe the odd possum. Just how quiet can they be made with a standard sized can bearing in mind the size of the hole in the end?
I have found trying them in the SBL that they are no quieter than standard ammo unsurpressed and with the normal rounds sighted at 100 meter zero the subs seem to be pretty much dead on at 50 meters. How much more drop would be expected out to 100 meters? And if sighted to 50 mtrs with subs how high would they be at say 20 meters or do they shot fairly flat for the first 50 ....?
I have a rifle all lined up to purchase but now I am second guessing the purchase....
Should I or shouldn"t I ......

Trajectory is very similar to 22LR subsonic.

Noise... Well, you nailed it really. The gaping hole at the end is an obvious path of least resistance for the gases. A fat suppressor with lots of volume forward of the muzzle is the only thing that'll really shut it up.

I'd be wary of shooting a possum in a tree with one. Even if it expands, that bullet is just going to keep on going up and off into the distance.

I wasn't impressed with the 450bm subs noise wise but would love the increased subsonic energy down range
It's just not reeeeal quiet like a 300blk/22lr and I already have a 44mag sub gun as well I on sold the 450bm.
There's just a certain point where subs get too noisy with me that it's not really worth the increase in energy to justify the extra noise

If sited in for 50m you will be having to aim a little high when it's at 20m by 1.5ish ish inches
The closer it is to 50 the less you will have to aim high ie at 35 it will be .75 inch ish higher aim than desired point of impact If you get my drift
Then after 50 it will drop off quite rapidly
I site for 35m with subs and keep shots within 50m but I basically exclusively use 300blk and with subsonic limitations this works great

Any subsonic round irrespective of calibre will have the same trajectory assuming they have the same velocity. So the 22 LR is your reference for drop etc.
Shooting possums with one would possibly he only known case of using too much gun. It won't even notice it and happily sail away into the distance to land God knows where. Don't get hung up on the rainbow trajectory knowing the distance and the actual trajectory you could easily connect with and knock stuff over at 300 or more yards.

My old H&R 45/70 with 500gr slugs was as quiet as any .22 with subs but when it hit there was a loud smack !

It had a home made can with rolled fly screen mesh, worked a great, the next one was a larger factory model & not as good really .

I think 125yd would be Ok on deer if you have a range finder & use flat nose slugs, most likely more with a dial scope ?

I even killed Bantang Bulls with it, as I remember it had more energy than a normal 44Mag factory load .

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Originally Posted by mimms2

BP or go home.

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I was thinking that....its not overly noisy without suppressor and pretty easy to get a load somewhere around 1000fps ....my 45/70 is only rifle not suppressed and with black powder its surely mild in all respects.

Thanks for the input guys.
As for possums 99 percent of the ones we shoot are usually either on the ground or head height and usually with the hillside behind them. I don't even shoot upwards with the 22 usually. And is it ever possible to use to much gun... really? Lol
I would be happy if I could get it down to suppressed 22 high velocity rounds noise level. I don't expect it to be 22 sub quiet because I realize that is a mighty big hole letting out the noise. I was thinking using 50 m as zero simply as with full power rounds that seems to equate to the same zero at 100 and I could use either full power or subs depending on how far I am shooting, but our goat shooting is rarely further than 35 to 50 due to the terrain and bush.
So how short a barrel could you go before loosing accuracy or performance with either subs or full power ?
And DPT ... thinking over barrel to keep it shorter...or gunworks Maximus suppressor ?

I used to sight my 44 with subs dead on at 100, but this resulted in misses over the top on closer shots. Zero at 65 and it is easier to allow a little hold over at 110.
As has already been stated, the trajectory will be the same as your 22. To explain, if different bullets all start off at the same speed then the flight time to the target is the same, which means the time that gravity has to act on the projectiles is the same

If you get the bergara single shot in 45-70, as there are different versions, you have to be aware that the barrel profil goes big quite quickly and that you way not be able to use an overbarrel suppressor if you get it chopped a bit too short.
Some come already threaded . I believe we fitted a magnum overbarrel suppressor on a factory threaded 20" barrel recently.

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Originally Posted by Friwi

If you get the bergara single shot in 45-70, as there are different versions, you have to be aware that the barrel profil goes big quite quickly and that you way not be able to use an overbarrel suppressor if you get it chopped a bit too short.
Some come already threaded . I believe we fitted a magnum overbarrel suppressor on a factory threaded 20" barrel recently.

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Its a factory threaded 20 l am looking at... sorry @Friwi but what brand is it you fitted ? Do you work for one of those companies if you don't mind me asking ?

Yes dpt.

Uh oh @Friwi... you've done it now...pm incoming...:D

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Originally Posted by mimms2

Dunno. 40 gn will go 1000fps in a pistol length barrel. The extra 30gn powder and barrel length probably push it 14-1600.

Still. BP is nice shootin.

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but if you using home rolled which is much bulkier.......40grns is doable with ease....WITHOUT the airspace..which can be filler filled even if its there.

So how long before you can see what you've shot at through the cloud of smoke @Micky Duck? Or is it not that bad....
Friend took his muzzle loader for a goat hunt with me... found one lined up and took the shot...fuck knows if he hit it... couldn't see a thing for ages through the bloody great cloud. The goat wasn't there when it finally cleared but no way to see even which direction it went in. There was a few bleats but I reckon it was just laughing at us...

nah...actually was dissapointed at how LITTLE smoke there is....plurry dirty though and corodes metalwork if you dont clean it that day.

So is the bergara single shot takedown with 20in barrel the best option for subs and full power if using the hornady sub-x 420gr and lever evolution ftx325 gr factory rounds?
I believe the twist rate is 1:20...
Will this be suitable for reasonable stability and accuracy?

So is the bergara single shot takedown with 20in barrel the best option for subs and full power if using the hornady sub-x 420gr and lever evolution ftx325 gr factory rounds?
I believe the twist rate is 1:20...
Will this be suitable for reasonable stability and accuracy?
That is the same as the SBL twist rate but only put a few rounds of subs through it and that was more of a noise experiment and haven't tested for accuracy as such.

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Originally Posted by Ftx325

So how long before you can see what you've shot at through the cloud of smoke @Micky Duck? Or is it not that bad....
Friend took his muzzle loader for a goat hunt with me... found one lined up and took the shot...fuck knows if he hit it... couldn't see a thing for ages through the bloody great cloud. The goat wasn't there when it finally cleared but no way to see even which direction it went in. There was a few bleats but I reckon it was just laughing at us...

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Boooom!!! Smack, quick step to upwind side. Maybe the goat was just a couple of bits of fluff you missed in the smoke cloud.