6.5 Creedmoor... 123 or 130 or 140?

Love a shithouse title so I'll attempt to shed some light here...

SO I have a new 6.5 creedmoor. Yeah, it's a Tikka and I drank the Kool Aid but now I need to know what the benefits of the heavier projectiles are!

I'm mainly shooting gongs out to 700 yds at the moment. Well, I'm hoping to get out there.
Most of my shooting has been out to 500 with a .223 and mates 7mm08 so I want to go further hence the creedmoor. So assuming they all shoot in my rig, will the heavier projectiles be of any benefit over the 123 ELD-M at that distance?

So, lets say there is 15-20 mph from 3 o'clock.... is the weight v speed a relevant argument here or is it only out past that point?

Be interested in this too as just started loading for one. Always thought heavier was better providing it has a good bc.

I saw your youtube vid on it earlier. I'd be going 143 eld, heavier and high bc always wins out past 500 odd yards

Put it in a calculator and have a look :D

Heavy equals better BC which equals a more slippery bullet that is less effected by wind and carries more energy at long range...

Yep, go 140gn and up if you can.

I'd go 140gr +. They maybe slower than 120gr but they will be better in wind, and wind is generally the problem at longer range especially if you have a good consistent load that doesn't have to much vertical dispersion. Just finished load development with my Tikka 6.5CM yesterday. Running 147gr ELD-M's loaded 15 thou off the lands (LTO = 2.310"), they just fit in the mag at that. According to my chrony they are running at 2,690fps (although it generally seems to read slow amd I prefer to use actual drop info to back calculate velocity) with an ES of 17 fps and SD of 6.7 fps. Lapua brass, CCI450 primers and Norma URP powder.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...2c7b3c8a08.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7315dadf2d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...258f9b60f1.jpg

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As a new CM convert, I can say they are easy to load for and get a "good load going". I havent experimented much but really havent needed to.
Rifle came with 130 ELDM's but I didnt really cotton on to them, tried a box of 140 ELDM's and thats been it. On a good day.
I shoot 600yd 1/2 MOA groups, 10 shots open up to 1 MOA. Thats in a bit of wind and rain with not a lot of time between shots.

The 140's definitely buck the wind better than the lighter projo's

My load isnt a barrel burner or anything clever, I did a short ladder test and came up with 41.5 grains of 2209 on my own, only to discover that is what everyone talks about anyway:omg:

Looks like I shoot the same rifle as @The Claw but I'm not allowed to keep it in the bedroom :P

Damn you @The Claw and your Khales scopes!!

A mate has that scope on his .338 Edge and I try not to look through it, but I have to and then I wish I hadn't !
@Gibo I did lob them through a calculator and the 123 @ 2900ish was pretty good but I thought I'd ask....

I'd better have a look at the 140's..... thanks lads!

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Originally Posted by The Claw

I'd go 140gr +. They maybe slower than 120gr but they will be better in wind, and wind is generally the problem at longer range especially if you have a good consistent load that doesn't have to much vertical dispersion. Just finished load development with my Tikka 6.5CM yesterday. Running 147gr ELD-M's loaded 15 thou off the lands (LTO = 2.310"), they just fit in the mag at that. According to my chrony they are running at 2,690fps (although it generally seems to read slow amd I prefer to use actual drop info to back calculate velocity) with an ES of 17 fps and SD of 6.7 fps. Lapua brass, CCI450 primers and Norma URP powder.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...2c7b3c8a08.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7315dadf2d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...258f9b60f1.jpg

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So in your bedroom, on the wallpaper above the headboard you have ......sheep, ? :D

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Originally Posted by sneeze

So in your bedroom, on the wallpaper above the headboard you have ......sheep, ? :D

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Huh? I'm a bit slow today...

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Hahaha.... they do look like sheep.... surrounded by antlers?

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Originally Posted by SlimySquirrel

Hahaha.... they do look like sheep.... surrounded by antlers?

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🤣[emoji13]

I see, said the blind man to the deaf man...

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At equal pressure push a higher bc projectile has less wind drift and drop at long range than a lower bc one.
If the 147 shoot well, go for them

Assuming you are only shooting reasonably stable supported prone type positions and aren't doing any sort of speed shooting then yep, go heavy 140gr +.

But if you are looking to get into practical shooting that involves a bit more positional shooting and the challenges of unconventional shooting positions and some speed being required then I think the 130gr projectiles are a better fit. The lighter projectiles will ensure the recoil is more manageable from an unconventional position and increases the chance you spot your own impact. Yes, even with the extra velocity they will give up a little performance in the wind - particularly at the longer distances but of course if you wanted significantly better performance in the wind at the longer distances then you probably should have gone bigger than a 6.5mm...

Well, I wanted more performance than a .223 and .243 but also be comfortable shooting it.

I'm not gonna be smashing 1k anytime soon and the Creedmoor has manageable recoil for someone with my shooting skill/experience.

I'm a big fan of the 300 Win Mag but not the reloading cost for powder!

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Originally Posted by SlimySquirrel

Well, I wanted more performance than a .223 and .243 but also be comfortable shooting it.

I'm not gonna be smashing 1k anytime soon and the Creedmoor has manageable recoil for someone with my shooting skill/experience.

I'm a big fan of the 300 Win Mag but not the reloading cost for powder!

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Projectiles is the biggest cost with reloading, after all the reloading gear. TimeRider loves her 7mm RM.

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Originally Posted by SlimySquirrel

Well, I wanted more performance than a .223 and .243 but also be comfortable shooting it.

I'm not gonna be smashing 1k anytime soon and the Creedmoor has manageable recoil for someone with my shooting skill/experience.

I'm a big fan of the 300 Win Mag but not the reloading cost for powder!

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For what you want the 6.5CM or 260 rem etc is ideally suited mate. My 260 use to go pretty well with the 123 Amax out to 600 yards or so (unfortunately that rifle wouldn't stabilise anything heavier) but heavier will be better again if you want better performance in wind and more energy on target/animal.

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Originally Posted by SlimySquirrel

Well, I wanted more performance than a .223 and .243 but also be comfortable shooting it.

I'm not gonna be smashing 1k anytime soon and the Creedmoor has manageable recoil for someone with my shooting skill/experience.

I'm a big fan of the 300 Win Mag but not the reloading cost for powder!

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Why not? My 260 with 130s does :D

Out to say 400yds speed rules, after 400yds BC rules

Just been looking around a sports shop in Houston
Attachment 87621

Europe is King,when it comes 6.5 competition shooting,they've been doing it for a very long time. The long 6.5 projectiles seem to defie even their own ballistic-bounds. Some rifles wont stabilise one weight, and then will stabilise something much heavier, that they technically shouldnt. You can check out all the swede {norwegian} 6.5x55 data, and you'll find endless info that you can adapt to Creedmoor. Dont chase speed, over the sweet-spots. Try also; setting your projectiles much further back than all the people in this part of the world say. European competitors often start 2mm off the lands, and work slowly forward. 6.5 projectiles often prefer a "jump", and primer-pockets last longer, with way less chamber pressures. Have fun..

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Originally Posted by Gibo

Why not? My 260 with 130s does :D

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Dude.... is your shit stir paddle a custom design?
:D

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Originally Posted by outdoorlad

Out to say 400yds speed rules, after 400yds BC rules

Just been looking around a sports shop in Houston
Attachment 87621

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Thats F*cking insane.... I hate photo's like that!!

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Originally Posted by SlimySquirrel

Well, I wanted more performance than a .223 and .243 but also be comfortable shooting it.

I'm not gonna be smashing 1k anytime soon and the Creedmoor has manageable recoil for someone with my shooting skill/experience.

I'm a big fan of the 300 Win Mag but not the reloading cost for powder!

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I assume you are replying to my comment about if you wanted better performance in the wind you should have chosen something bigger than a 6.5mm. My original comment was intended to be for the comparison of the 130gr projectiles and 140gr+ projectiles in a short action 6.5mm calibre and how the increase in wind bucking ability of the 140gr+ projectiles is not significant when you consider how much most people typically practice shooting in varied wind conditions.
It was not intended to compare the 6.5mm against your 223 or 243 - that said you probably shouldn't bother comparing your .243 using the heavy 6mm target projectiles against your new 6.5CM - the results of this comparison might surprise you.

I hear ya.

I'm not comparing, just stating that I want more performance than those two rounds offer.

I couldn't get anything bigger than 100 gr to work in my previous .243 so I went with the Creedmor.

I'll get plenty of opportunity to shoot this rig as I have the others. It's in an area that offers varied wind direction and plenty of gullies to test out wind call, hence the shift up from the 1-8 .223.

Speed is not an issue here for me. I'm over the "must go faster" scenario that ruled over my decision making prior... I would have kept my 6.5-284 that I sold to Ryan if I was still into the mad speed!
That said, I will probably look at the 130gr projectiles and have a play until I settle on something that tickles my fancy...my youngest has already said he wants to shoot the Creedmoor so I need to load them down and reduce the recoil too.

Do I hear a 6mm CM :):oh noes:

I would try the 140 and 147 eldm and the 130 and 140 vlds

https://vgy.me/znSWYv.jpg

143gr ELD-X all the way for me. Hasn’t been a hunting discussion I know but this photo was last night’s goat action, from a little less than 250m out to 625-630m. Very little wind, sometimes its gets up a bit downrange and you have to watch out... but otherwise these 143gr pills have been outstanding. As per comments above, I also have to rely on drops data and back calculate velocity, rather than just the chrono. Out past 250m the Strelock gets it all wrong if I just use the chrono data.

Of all the pills I’ve used in .22, 6mm and .30, these long for calibre, heavy 6.5s have been defo the most reliable to hunt with out past half a click, accuracy speaking. On paper they’ll do 0.5” groups at 100m easy, often better, but its the downrange bankability that’s really impressed me, not just accuracy wise but the whopping great thump they deliver as well. Bloody good bullets, I’m fully converted.

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Originally Posted by SlimySquirrel

Love a shithouse title so I'll attempt to shed some light here...

SO I have a new 6.5 creedmoor. Yeah, it's a Tikka and I drank the Kool Aid but now I need to know what the benefits of the heavier projectiles are!

I'm mainly shooting gongs out to 700 yds at the moment. Well, I'm hoping to get out there.
Most of my shooting has been out to 500 with a .223 and mates 7mm08 so I want to go further hence the creedmoor. So assuming they all shoot in my rig, will the heavier projectiles be of any benefit over the 123 ELD-M at that distance?

So, lets say there is 15-20 mph from 3 o'clock.... is the weight v speed a relevant argument here or is it only out past that point?

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Here's a couple of screen shots to to show bigger BC equals better performance at long range

first is for hornady factory load 129sst superformance doing 2923 at muzzel 15mph from 90 degrees
Attachment 87694

2nd is for 147 ELDM doing 2690 at the muzzle same wind
Attachment 87695

The rest is self explanatory

Oh and the numbers are for my 6.5 CM 24inch barrel

Awesome @spada

Thats the thing, see at 600-700 it's not really enough to make a difference really for me as I'm used to holding PLENTY for the .223 beyond 400 yds.
But once it gets out past 700, the real numbers start to shine particularly in the windage front!

It's been bloody playing on my mind so I'm fairly certain I'll go with the 123 or 140.

The only issue is that the data I'm getting from Bullet Flight at 700yds with a 15mph wind from the 3 has the 123 ELD-M @2900 16.3 MOA up 7.6 MOA right and the 140 ELD-M @2650 is giving me 18.9 MOA up and 7.3 MOA so thats not a huge difference? Is that the same in your app?
Does the full Bullet Flight App give you the full list of projectiles? I can't find the 130 ELDM on there and cant adjust drop values. I only have the $6 version...

I'll be going that far first before getting giddy and going further...

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Originally Posted by SlimySquirrel

Awesome @spada

Thats the thing, see at 600-700 it's not really enough to make a difference really for me as I'm used to holding PLENTY for the .223 beyond 400 yds.
But once it gets out past 700, the real numbers start to shine particularly in the windage front!

It's been bloody playing on my mind so I'm fairly certain I'll go with the 123 or 140.

The only issue is that the data I'm getting from Bullet Flight at 700yds with a 15mph wind from the 3 has the 123 ELD-M @2900 16.3 MOA up 7.6 MOA right and the 140 ELD-M @2650 is giving me 18.9 MOA up and 7.3 MOA so thats not a huge difference? Is that the same in your app?
Does the full Bullet Flight App give you the full list of projectiles? I can't find the 130 ELDM on there and cant adjust drop values. I only have the $6 version...

I'll be going that far first before getting giddy and going further...

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I think your velocity numbers for both bullet weights are quite conservative. I'll check mt load data, but im sure i was pushing the 143gr much faster from my 20" 6.5CM

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Originally Posted by SlimySquirrel

Awesome @spada

Thats the thing, see at 600-700 it's not really enough to make a difference really for me as I'm used to holding PLENTY for the .223 beyond 400 yds.
But once it gets out past 700, the real numbers start to shine particularly in the windage front!

It's been bloody playing on my mind so I'm fairly certain I'll go with the 123 or 140.

The only issue is that the data I'm getting from Bullet Flight at 700yds with a 15mph wind from the 3 has the 123 ELD-M @2900 16.3 MOA up 7.6 MOA right and the 140 ELD-M @2650 is giving me 18.9 MOA up and 7.3 MOA so thats not a huge difference? Is that the same in your app?
Does the full Bullet Flight App give you the full list of projectiles? I can't find the 130 ELDM on there and cant adjust drop values. I only have the $6 version...

I'll be going that far first before getting giddy and going further...

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I agree with @GWH your velocities are quite low. With a 140 ELDm you should be closer to 2800 fps
Secondly I've not been able to get the accuracy out of the lighter bullets in my rig, certainly not good enough to consider shots beyond 500M albeit I have only used factory loads for those and am now reloading 140/143/147 elds. They do it all well and they do it very well out at long range as long as I do my part.

Below is the table for my 140 ELDm load the drop is not significantly different to the lighter offerings but your windage is basically half of the lower BC projectiles even at the closer ranges.
I can live with the holdover but if I can lessen the windage error those are what I'll go for every time.

Attachment 87706

I use Strelok+ but you can use the free version and it lets you input your own loads data

you 130 eldm table below same wind as before working on 2890 MV
hope that helps.

Attachment 87709

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Originally Posted by GWH

I think your velocity numbers for both bullet weights are quite conservative. I'll check mt load data, but im sure i was pushing the 143gr much faster from my 20" 6.5CM

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I saw 2850 fps at the higher end of my ladder testing with the 143 eldx in my 6.5CM, but that was getting warm, presure signs were higher than that tho, but 2800 should be quite achieveable without pushing too hard.

Yeah, interesting how the different barrels of the same length can have such variances in velocity.

I'd rather work out on the conservative side and then be pleasantly surprised.

Thanks for your help lads.... I'll have to work out velocity the hard way! start at 100 and try to hit gongs on the way out.... should be fun anyway.