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Purely considering ballistics and performance on game, would a 6.5 PRC or 7mm Short Mag (if you can get one) be your choice for all round NZ hunting calibre to start off with. This includes bush hunting as well as Alpine hunting and all sizes of game.
For me 7mm 100%. BCs on the 6.5s dont compare quite yet and the high bc bullets are typically softer so i prefer a heavier projectile going slightly slower. Id do a 7mm SAUM with 180s probably. Plus you have a marginally wider channel with a 7mm anyway so thats a perk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Longbow
Perks of the 6.5 are mainly recoil reduction and availability of factory ammo.
Both are more than enough for a pretty reasonable distance here.
Better is dependent on your goals and how important each attribute is.
6.5 PRC in a 22 inch barrel 2950-3000fps with a 147 ELD M - Muzzle Energy 2937ftlbs @700yards 2105fps 1445ftlbs
7 RSAUM in a 22 inch barrel 2800-2850fps with a 180 ELD M - Muzzle Energy 3246ftlbs @700 yards 2078fps 1725ftlbs
The Saum would have 1moa more drop at that range and 0.1moa less wind drift at that range. So as you can see both are very similar in everything except the SAUM has a bit more energy. I personally keep my projectiles of that 3000fps plus range typically as i find going slower usually means more consistent results in close but im sure plenty of guys have run the 147s in a prc in close without issue.
The 153 atip has better bc and at the moment better availability tho not in factory ammo.
Just run the numbers with todays atmosphere at near sea level and at 700y there isnt much advantage.....its not till you get out past what one should be thinking about shooting living things that they really shine.
I've dropped from a 30cal shooting 178gr at 3k braked to the prc shooting 153gr at nearly 3k suppressed.
Reasons.
Less recoil
Less noise
Less wind drift
Factory ammo
Mainly so my Son can shoot it and we can carry one rifle instead of 2.
yes but I'm not sold the A Tips are a great projectile yet. The video by Gunwerks on YouTube is dubious at best and Pronghorn are very light bodied similar to Cham. plus energy difference still remains the whole way if comparing the the 180 eld. But for you having your son shooting it makes the recoil a big factor. Sounds a great all rounder.Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
Greetings Longbow,
Your choice depends more on availability and your personality than any miniscule difference in performance should such exist. If you lust after the latest whizo rifle then the 6.5 PRC will likely ring your bell. If however if your road is a path less travelled and you delight in something a little different then the 7mm SAUM might do the trick although you may need to nave a rifle built. If the latter think hard about the twist so you can shoot the longer and more pointy projectiles.
Enjoy the decision process. There are no wrong decisions.
Regards Grandpamac.
Just buy a 7mm remmag standard 24" barrell cut 6" off throw an over barrel supressor on it and you will have a bushpig capable of shooting 7-800 yds if required. Better BC's in 7mm as others have said
I came down from 7RM to 6.5-284. RM was great though more gun than I needed. 6.5 gives me option to more easily shoot it bare (moderate recoil) making it quite handy. PRC bit handier as goes better in shortish barrel and bit more capacity than 6.5-284
I had the choice between 6.5PRC & 7mmSAUM. Went with saum, stoked I did. Specifically as an all-rounder for NZ
162gr eldx at 2960
Are you wanting a short action rifle ? or does this not matter?. As Far as the 6.5 prc goes it a very pleasant rifle to shoot and there is factory ammo available as well as factory rifles. If your not hand loading then its an even better choice . If your hand loading then a Saum might be the ticket ,it will have abit more grunt because of its ability to fire heavier bullets .Though as Cam pointed out there is not much in it , but it will be a build your own unless you find a good second hand one. If your not wanting to go the magnum way but wanting something similar to a Saum then have a think about the 280 Ackley .Its available in factory rifles and ammo and its not far behind the 7mmRM but with out the extra powder /recoil . Like Grandpamac said there are no wrong choices .
On a side note Cam have you shot anything with the Atips yet and if so how did they go?? .
Get a 284, job done
Just watchec a video by Ron Spomer comparing these and the 280 ai and a couple of others. The 270 WSM shooting 150 grain bullets out performed them all for NZ conditions the new 6.8 shooting 165,s would be ideal I reckon.
After 20+ years shooting a 25-06 and 4 years a 6.5 CM, no one can convince me that a 6.5PRC / 6.5-284 is not 'enough' for all NZ game animals.
So if that's the case why even bother about stepping up to 7mmSAUM?.
The 6.5PRC is all you need as you want reliable killing power not excessive... plus it has less recoil, less powder burnt, and availability of factory ammo.
Re the Atips.
I haven't shot any living thing with them yet and there is not much info out there yet from those that have but I am fairly confident they are going to work well.
And if not then there is always the 157 berger and the eldm and x.
Sent from my S60 using Tapatalk
Hi HotsoupQuote:
Originally Posted by hotsoup
What twist rate did you go with for the saum?
Cheers
AMac
1-8 @AMacQuote:
Originally Posted by AMac
G'day @Longbow
I currently have a 6.5 prc and 7mm Blaser. In the past I have owned and shot a heap of game with 708, 308, 7mmRM and 7mmwsm.
My most recent cal is the 6.5 prc, this has been the lest finicky caliber I have ever reloaded. Stuff any powder and any pill in there, test them side by side and each 3 shot group will go into the same shreaded hole! It's crazy. Asides from the awesome accuracy I like that it is a light short package at 20 inch barrel.
I have shot roughly 15 deer and 80 goats with it but I am not convinced with the 6.5 yet. I don't think the 6.5 compares to a 7mm for terminal knock down performance. Simply my observations.
The 7mm Blaser Magnum is an unreal cartridge. Paired with a 180 eldm getting spat out at 3060fps it is an absolute thumper and cheater of wind! This is my go to for the roar. The down side to this absolute beast is the longer barrel and extra weight.
If a short and light setup is what you are after I would look at a 7mm wsm, or a 7saum. I wouldn't discount the 300wsm either as IMO there is way more selection in projectiles that are suitable for hunting deer.
The great thing about the short magnums in general is that they don't mind a short barrel due to there short powder column and you can also load them accordingly to what you are chasing.
Good LUck with the search. The struggle is real, LOL
I love these debates. I'm a 270 guy. Ay? I think if i had to have 1 rifle, that would be it. I agree with the recoil/blast comments above, but I think they are more than offset by the long range performance advantages. Plus I'm a solid guy who can soak it up. Simply suppress for Bush hunting if you want, then it's a pussycat. Tops matters less, plenty of time to set up usually. It bothers me a bit that apart from the 270wsm (finicky) there has been little development of this dia. I doubt the 6.8 Western will change that but anything is possible. Speed & bc's matter out past 300m on a windy NZ tops day, which is why 308 and 7mm08 are at a disadvantage. I've always been keen on a pill going around 3k fps.
My plain old NZ hunting flavour is the mighty .243, everything big, small, near and far dies. Not in the habit of trying to kill stuff at 900yds though, I just get closer....Quote:
Originally Posted by 7mmwsm
Ay....plenty of options..Ay why dont you work it backwards...Ay,decide what you really need cartridge to achieve and look at what cartridges will do that.Ay the older plain jane ones have been doing it for years,Ay the dirty 06 with modern rifle and modern loadings would be a force to be reckoned with too...Ay with suppressor fitted many previously considered hard recoiling cartridges are much more user friendly .Ay Im told a 145grn hornady fancy new sleak new named SST at just over 3000fps goes rather well to and kills very well......Ay wonder what hundred year old case would do that???
I would choose the 7mm hands down. You could argue I’m 7mm biased (and I am haha) but don’t get me wrong I am loving my little 260 atm. The larger 7mils to me are the ultimate compromise of everything, ballistic performance, recoil, terminal performance etc etc for hunting. The further and bigger you go the more the 7 will out perform the 6.5. The 6.5s only real advantage IMO is a little less recoil. Gunwerks (USA) have a real good podcast on this. It’s called something like “Long Range Pursuit: EP60: Get SAUM”
I’m talking myself into some sort of 7mm magnum bush pig variant now. The more I think about the more it’s a good idea.
My next rifle project is a 7mm saum based on a rem 700 short action. Will run a 20” suppressed barrel pushing out 160gr pills at more then enough poke for all things hunting. The ultimate do everything one rifle to cover everything setup I am thinking.
Agreed with @stagstalker. I first chose .270 as the do-it-all NZ cartridge, but when I was gifted a .243 with sentimental value, I passed the .270 on to my bro in law and started researching the best complimentary rifle. Settled on 7mmWSM due to ballistics and availability of pills. If I didn’t reload it would be a different story, but I’m loving my new Mod 7.
I thought the exact same thing when I started reading this thread. A suppressed 7mm08 or 308 with a barrel length around 20in is a very effective setup out to 400yd, and arguably further. And they get the job done with moderate recoil/muzzle jump. A PRC or similar looks like a very good option for an experienced hunter who is regularly shooting at 400+, but I hunt some pretty open country and can’t justify getting one, as the old Plain Jane 308 still gets the job done for meQuote:
Originally Posted by 7mmwsm