Bolt Problems

Hey guys I have a Mossberg ATR 100 chambered in .243 around 5 years old with only max 60 rounds through it, recently something has happened to it and nothing comes to memory as to knocks or any thing on my end. When I half cock it, rifle has bolt phase of open, one click and fully closed, so when it is on one click/half cocked and I pull the trigger the bolt closes itself and the pin goes off. I fortunately have not had this happen with a live round in the spout. Found this occurring when I was cleaning the rifle. There is no rust on the bolt and it has always been regularly cleaned. Also there is nothing interfering with the action or the bedding. So basically am after any information as to why this is occurring. So just in summary when I have the bolt half cocked and pull the trigger 4/5 times the bolt slams shut and the pin goes off. Does not occur when safety is on. Also finally the bolt is solid when it is half cocked i.e. it locks strongly into place and does not move unwillingly.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Sorry, but why are you using a half cock on a rifle that is not a .303?
Use the safety man, that is what it is for and none of these issues occur when you do.

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Originally Posted by DanS

Hey guys I have a Mossberg ATR 100 chambered in .243 around 5 years old with only max 60 rounds through it, recently something has happened to it and nothing comes to memory as to knocks or any thing on my end. When I half cock it, rifle has bolt phase of open, one click and fully closed, so when it is on one click/half cocked and I pull the trigger the bolt closes itself and the pin goes off. I fortunately have not had this happen with a live round in the spout. Found this occurring when I was cleaning the rifle. There is no rust on the bolt and it has always been regularly cleaned. Also there is nothing interfering with the action or the bedding. So basically am after any information as to why this is occurring. So just in summary when I have the bolt half cocked and pull the trigger 4/5 times the bolt slams shut and the pin goes off. Does not occur when safety is on. Also finally the bolt is solid when it is half cocked i.e. it locks strongly into place and does not move unwillingly.

Thanks in advance for any info.

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That is perfectly normal on any bolt action. When the bolt handle is up in the half-bolt (not half-cocked as the striker is already at full cock) position, the striker is resting on the sear and the cam surface of the striker is resting on the bolt cam thus it sits there quite nicely. The moment you pull the trigger the sear drops (as it is designed to do) and the striker moves forward under spring pressure, camming the bolt closed. This will NOT fire a round as the firing pin energy is spent trying to close the bolt. You will have to raise and lower the bolt handle to recock the gun before you can fire it. The half-bolt position is a good way to carry your rifle in the final stages of a stalk when you can close the bolt silently as you are in a position to take the shot. Keep your finger outside the trigger guard while carrying like this and keep control of the bolt handle between your finger and thumb at all times. This prevents the bolt closing, and also prevents it falling open and losing the round when you might need it.

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Originally Posted by dogmatix

Sorry, but why are you using a half cock on a rifle that is not a .303?
Use the safety man, that is what it is for and none of these issues occur when you do.

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Understand what your saying mate but its the way I have always hunted, way I was brought up and it is the way I prefer to hold a rifle and hunt. That being said I'm sure your way would be more safe and less dangerous in case of falls trips etc but using the safety wont fix the problem.

Yep, nothing wrong with it, it was just never meant to be used like that.

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Originally Posted by gundoc

That is perfectly normal on any bolt action. When the bolt handle is up in the half-bolt (not half-cocked as the striker is already at full cock) position, the striker is resting on the sear and the cam surface of the striker is resting on the bolt cam thus it sits there quite nicely. The moment you pull the trigger the sear drops (as it is designed to do) and the striker moves forward under spring pressure, camming the bolt closed. This will NOT fire a round as the firing pin energy is spent trying to close the bolt. You will have to raise and lower the bolt handle to recock the gun before you can fire it. The half-bolt position is a good way to carry your rifle in the final stages of a stalk when you can close the bolt silently as you are in a position to take the shot. Keep your finger outside the trigger guard while carrying like this and keep control of the bolt handle between your finger and thumb at all times. This prevents the bolt closing, and also prevents it falling open and losing the round when you might need it.

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Thanks alot. Still learning these things. Gun mechanics is not something I have looked into bar the basics.

It was fine for grand dad on a dodgy .303 with a crap safety, but its asking for trouble on modern designs other than a mauser action.
I had someone try to insist I used this method when I was starting out on my old Savage 110.
Well guess what, on the supposed 'half bolt' the firing pin drops on the Savage and the gun will fire, complete with a bolt not locked in place properly.
Safe way to hunt?
No thanks.

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Originally Posted by dogmatix

It was fine for grand dad on a dodgy .303 with a crap safety, but its asking for trouble on modern designs other than a mauser action.
I had someone try to insist I used this method when I was starting out on my old Savage 110.
Well guess what, on the supposed 'half bolt' the firing pin drops on the Savage and the gun will fire, complete with a bolt not locked in place properly.
Safe way to hunt?
No thanks.

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Each to their own, but I totally agree safety is number one

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Originally Posted by gundoc

..........This will NOT fire a round as the firing pin energy is spent trying to close the bolt. You will have to raise and lower the bolt handle to recock the gun before you can fire it. ...........

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Unfortunately it can and has happened to me and I'm sure plenty of others. It's not a safe way to carry a rifle that cocks on opening and hunters have been known to fall over and have the bolt closed on them, some ending up with the rifle pointing at them. Not a situation you'd want to find yourself in.

I usually carry my Sako 85 with the bolt half closed and the safety engaged. The trouble with the safety only approach is that it's hard to tell at a glance whether the rifle is cocked or not. With the bolt half closed it's reassurance also for anyone you may be hunting with.

Dan, I think you're missing what is being said. Your rifle does not have a true half cock position. It is closing the bolt exactly as it should when the trigger is pulled.
You mention "safety is number one" but you're choosing to hunt in an unsafe manner.

Should have probably had a read of this thread before posting, http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...pen-bolt-5204/ exactly what I needed to read. Vietnamcam explains everything I was asking

Just to add...an old 303 on half cock is about as dangerous as dangerous can be.
Any sort of thump can set it off, and you have to fully cock it to deactivate the half cock. Try that with wet slippery fingers and see what happens.

Where do you think the expression "going off half cocked" came from? It was probably coined by someone with only one foot.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Just to add...an old 303 on half cock is about as dangerous as dangerous can be.
Any sort of thump can set it off, and you have to fully cock it to deactivate the half cock. Try that with wet slippery fingers and see what happens.

Where do you think the expression "going off half cocked" came from? It was probably coined by someone with only one foot.

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The expression actually comes from the days of flintlock firearms, going off at halfcock meant that the flint wouldnt hit the frizzen with enough force to ignite the powder in the pan. Hence the term going off half cocked - not being fully prepared.

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Originally Posted by JRW87

The expression actually comes from the days of flintlock firearms, going off at halfcock meant that the flint wouldnt hit the frizzen with enough force to ignite the powder in the pan. Hence the term going off half cocked - not being fully prepared.

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That doesnt make any sense compared to Tahr's version :)

Fark man this half cock buzz is so engrained in nz hunters, Its how i Was taught to hunt and you should see the looks on the faces of my hunting mate when I tell them its not safe, then you should see the looks on their faces when I tell them they cant come hunting with me until they change thier ways.

Sound like it's poked man. Throw it away and buy yourself another rifle.

Have a look at the Cocking piece and the surface of your bolt ,close to the cut out, where the cocking piece sits .Things may have rounded themselves?.
As for those who have some inaleinable practice of using the safety ,just remember crap can get in rendering it useless .And the only Safety is to keep your nose picking finger off the trigger!.Would you put your rifle to your head with the safety on and pull the trigger ,I bet you wouldn't.:)

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Originally Posted by Tankd

Have a look at the Cocking piece and the surface of your bolt ,close to the cut out, where the cocking piece sits .Things may have rounded themselves?.
As for those who have some inaleinable practice of using the safety ,just remember crap can get in rendering it useless .And the only Safety is to keep your nose picking finger off the trigger!.Would you put your rifle to your head with the safety on and pull the trigger ,I bet you wouldn't.:)

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Sooner than with a half cock

I wonder how many people can actually give an account of a modern, non-tampered with safety failing, i bet you wouldn't find many if any.

Bet we could find a few who have had an AD using the half cock method though! 10 ring is one already, and yet people will spout on about how dangerous and unreliable these safeties, that were designed by teams of engineers at multi-million dollar companies, most of which that are in the law suit capital of the world, are!

Anyway, point it in a safe direction and you can have as many ADs as you like and nothing bad will happen!

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Originally Posted by Tankd

Have a look at the Cocking piece and the surface of your bolt ,close to the cut out, where the cocking piece sits .Things may have rounded themselves?.
As for those who have some inaleinable practice of using the safety ,just remember crap can get in rendering it useless .And the only Safety is to keep your nose picking finger off the trigger!.Would you put your rifle to your head with the safety on and pull the trigger ,I bet you wouldn't.:)

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You have me worried now, the brakes on my car also have a 1 in 10000000000 chance of completely failing due to dirt or manufacturing fault or act of god or something, so what i am going to do is carry an anchor and throw that out instead of using the brakes designed by the manufacturer.

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Originally Posted by Spudattack

You have me worried now, the brakes on my car also have a 1 in 10000000000 chance of completely failing due to dirt or manufacturing fault or act of god or something, so what i am going to do is carry an anchor and throw that out instead of using the brakes designed by the manufacturer.

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About as effective :D

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Originally Posted by JRW87

The expression actually comes from the days of flintlock firearms, going off at halfcock meant that the flint wouldnt hit the frizzen with enough force to ignite the powder in the pan. Hence the term going off half cocked - not being fully prepared.

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Ok. You outed me. I made that up. :)