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Hey guys i finally got out for load development on the new shooter today and all is looking really good except for almost every case gets stuck in the chamber after firing. Bloody annoying. A very light tap with a cleaning rod and they come out.
Rounds aren't tight to chamber and double checked a few unfired rounds and all are in spec.
I'm thinking I need to get the extractor done, sako style but is there anything else I need to check first?
Rem 700 LA, trueflight, 284,
Are there any marks on the fired case. The chamber may be a bit rough and the case is sticking to the wall of the chamber.
Nope. All looks good.Quote:
Originally Posted by garyp
Maybe the action timing is out . . . so no primary extraction?
Does the extractor slip over the case rim when extracting and how much force does that take? There may be a slight ring in the chamber or you loads may be too hot. After almost 50 years of loading 700's I have never had a problem even when using spicy loads. Also check your velocity compared to load data allowing for barrel length. If it is higher so is your pressure.
GPM.
Extractor spring gone buggerup?
The cases you are using, have they been fired in this chamber before, or in a different chamber/gun?
Shoulder set back a bit?
Had a mate reload some .308 for me years ago (before I had my own gear).
He did 20 rounds for me that had problems extracting (even though they were unfired).
Turns out he was 'busy' so had his missus do the reloading!!!
Yeah, she had no idea. Had set all the shoulders back too far.
Never had him reload for me again, and bought my own gear quite quickly after that.
First time shooting this rifle. Cases FL sized and checked in rifle. Fired in previous rifle with no issue.
Definitely not a hot load as it happened on my light loads for barrel break in, 150g SBT 52g AR2209, 2600 fps. Worked up to 55.5g with 150 NBT, 2800 fps with no pressure signs. Would be happy going higher.
Just ran a quick test and sized brass extracts fine and 1 of 3 fired cases got stuck.
Measuring fired cases nothing stands out except the neck. Neck is .318 except just above the shoulder where it's .328ish. Could this be the dreaded donut I've read about?
Also compared this extractor with my 308 sako and there is big difference, tension is a lot less and measuring across the face of bolt to extractor there's a difference of 20 thou so a lot less engagement.
Might try neck turning a couple to see if that helps and if not it likely needs to go back to the Smith for checking.
Attachment 219649
Sako vs Rem
Attachment 219651
Whats the prefix on the serial number and does the bolt raise easily just wont pull backward easily.
Thanks to a forum member I now know more about how Remington actions primary extraction works than I ever should have needed to know and I wont ever forget !!
Who rebarreled it?
Below is a good explanation of Primary Extraction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szy4...l=darkeagle10x
Sounds like an extractor issue, either that or the rims on the cases are worn out. Here’s my logic….
On a Remington bolt, the extractor is usually stronger than the bolt handle- as in, if the case was really stuck you’d pull the bolt handle off before the extractor gave out. I doubt it’s an extraction timing issue, because the bolt would still be holding onto the case in the chamber, and the whole thing would be locked up.
I had a ZKW465 in .22 Hornet that did this exact thing. It's a serious pain in the arse isn't it? I found that every factory load I tried ejected fine, but of every reloaded round one in two or three stuck. Dimesionally, the Lee .22 Hornet full length sizing die was within spec but the taper on the factory chamber was on the smaller side of tolerance being Euro rather than US.
I suspect that you may have a similar thing going on, and you may need to run a shellholder across a sander to take a few thou off and get a bit more crunch on the shells. Your idea of having a really good measure up is the right one, and also take to a few with a whiteboard marker and run lines up the cases to try and see where they are grabbing the chamber wall. In effect, primary extraction in conjunction with the grip of the extractor is not enough to pop the fired case free - but if you are saying a light pop from a rod the extractor won't ever pull that free...
I agree with @mikee - your description sounds like a lack of primary extraction, which is a know fault with some REM700s. Was the action trued when new bbl fitted? This is known to make the timing fault worse.
The extractor likely will never pull a sticky case free. People go on about the Mauser claw - but it won't hold on a stuck case it'll just pop over the softer brass leaving the stuck shell behind. When you have to tap a case to pop it free it's stuck pretty bloody firmly. Take the extractor off and fire a shell, the empty case should just push straight out.
Thanks guys. Yes the action was blue printed so sounds like it could be a primary extraction issue. It's not RR prefix so there is a glimmer of hope cos I'm not liking the look of the fix I saw on YouTube.
I'll give the brass a good check over first then pull the scope and check the cam clearance.
RR series were some of the worst offenders from the factory but as mentioned can also be an issue if action has been "trued up"Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobba
When you check the cam'ing it take the firing pin out of the bolt. Its quite easy to see if primary extraction is there or not. Is the 280 an AI or std.
The actual fix if that is the issue should be quite straight forward for a competent gunsmith who is good with a tig welder. Sadly I was not so lucky
Do you have any new cases that have not been fired in any firearm yet?
Please, test and compare to what the used&sized cases do with the same loads.
Can you please do me a favour? Measure the neck diameter of a loaded round and also the neck diameter of a fired case?
Thanks Jaco will try all of above, measure and let you know. Luckily I can fire shots out the garage door without upsetting anyone except the misses if I forget to warn her.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaco Goosen
Right here we go case dimensions, additionally loaded rounds measure .315 at the neck, chamber is .320.
Attachment 219725
So first up the new cases. Win brass is definitely a little smaller and consistent down the neck. I've never fired these as only have a few pieces. Norma just has the increase at the base of the neck.
New vs sized again don't see any major issue except maybe the base of the neck and the same for the fired.
I then went about chambering all cases with firing pin removed. All cases chambered very easily with no resistance except a little on the new Win brass so assume the shoulder is a little further forward. Didn't measure this but can if needed. All cases including 10x fired, all extracted but would say only 50% gave positive ejection, the rest came back but still partly in the chamber or sat on mag follower. The fired cases being the worst. A few loaded rounds also chambered easily and extracted but again poor ejection.
Repeated the same test but with firing pin in, all new and sized brass extracted, fired brass 3 of 10 stuck in chamber.
Repeated again on fired brass but pulled trigger 8 of 10 stuck in chamber.
Appreciate you thoughts on this and what to load if needed.
Hi @mikee definitely looks like what's in you video. Cam not contacting. Forgot to take pictures but will do tomorrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikee
The Norma case base isn’t getting sized down enough. Ideally you want minimum 0.002” sizing of the base on fired brass. I’m surprised you’re not getting clickers at top of bolt lift.
First port of call is the guy who built it, give him the chance to fix it but not multiple chances like I was stupid enough to do because did not know any better. If he is any good and takes professional pride in a job well done then it will be sorted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobba
Your reloading will not be to blame, nor will anything else. Its a really really common issue that some suppliers seem to have no clue about.
Yep I think that's the only way to go from here, certainly beyond my expertise. Guess I'm hanging on to the hope I can still use it this roar. Ha could always carry round a cleaning rod.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikee
Just think of it as a muzzle loader?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobba
Definitely take it back to the gunsmith who did the job so they have the opportunity to diagnose & fix. But I would also share with them what you’ve experienced in trying to diagnose the fault & the known fault in some REM700 actions for lack of primary extraction.
Cheers mate.
Thanks for all the measurements. Your cases as well as the neck thickness has been cleared of suspision.
