Thread: Cupronickel bullets and barrel fouling

How bad is this stuff? Got a bunch of 303 ammo thats got cupronickel bullets.
I have only shot half a dozen rounds of it in my rifle, but how hard is it to remove? Given i have no idea on the history of my gun, its probably nothing to be concerned about in the scheme of things as it probably was all it shot for its early part of its life.
I have pulled some and had it in my tumbler for a couple of hours and noticed that the nickel plating was beginning to come off.
Since it seems to be a thin layer and somewhat easy enough to remove, I think i will run it all through the tumbler to take it off.
I thought the whole jacket was a nickel/copper alloy on this, but it appears to be a standard copper FMJ thats plated in nickel, does this sound right?

Nickel jacket ammo would be at least 80 years old. It wasn't considered a problem by the military so it shouldn't be for you either. There were many experiments in the 20s and 30s to "fix" problems probably the most famous being the American tin can 3006. It had been found that tin foil in artillery propellent bags significantly reduced copper fouling so they tried it with rifle ammo by tin plating the bullets. It worked but in storage they found the bullet cold soldered to the case causing drastic pressures increases so they figured that the fouling problem wasn't that bad after all which it wasn't.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Nickel jacket ammo would be at least 80 years old. It wasn't considered a problem by the military so it shouldn't be for you either. There were many experiments in the 20s and 30s to "fix" problems probably the most famous being the American tin can 3006. It had been found that tin foil in artillery propellent bags significantly reduced copper fouling so they tried it with rifle ammo by tin plating the bullets. It worked but in storage they found the bullet cold soldered to the case causing drastic pressures increases so they figured that the fouling problem wasn't that bad after all which it wasn't.

That's interesting to hear.
I was reading about what you said last night how aluminum foil was put in the propellant of artillery rounds to remove fouling.
So this nickel plating was actually an attempt to prevent copper fouling?
I've read some posts that suggest some real early 303 ammo was actually steel jacket with nickel plating and you use a magnet to detect what rounds have it.
I would imagine those bullets would be hard on your barrel.
Either way, I can't see how a thin layer thats plated would cause much harm, but there seems to be a number of people who claim its stuffed their barrels and took a lot of effort to remove the stuff.

Speaking of fouling, my rifle has a ton of copper fouling that does not seem to come out, none of this was my doing, it was like it when I got it.
Visually, it looks OK when I look down, but I've lost count on the number of patches I've put down with hoppes no9 and it still comes out dirty.
It's pretty damn hard to push this cleaning rod through and im getting sick of it lol.
I have probably put through more patches through this thing than ammo.
The patches came out grey to start with, but after pushing through a real tight patch, it started to come out green, which presumably is copper.
Any other ideas on what to try? I've not had any experience with filling a barrel with bore solvent yet.
Someone told me im wasting my time and that a dirty 303 shoots better which i think is BS, probably just taking the pics lol.

Originally Posted by Old_School

That's interesting to hear.
I was reading about what you said last night how aluminum foil was put in the propellant of artillery rounds to remove fouling.
So this nickel plating was actually an attempt to prevent copper fouling?
I've read some posts that suggest some real early 303 ammo was actually steel jacket with nickel plating and you use a magnet to detect what rounds have it.
I would imagine those bullets would be hard on your barrel.
Either way, I can't see how a thin layer thats plated would cause much harm, but there seems to be a number of people who claim its stuffed their barrels and took a lot of effort to remove the stuff.

Speaking of fouling, my rifle has a ton of copper fouling that does not seem to come out, none of this was my doing, it was like it when I got it.
Visually, it looks OK when I look down, but I've lost count on the number of patches I've put down with hoppes no9 and it still comes out dirty.
It's pretty damn hard to push this cleaning rod through and im getting sick of it lol.
I have probably put through more patches through this thing than ammo.
The patches came out grey to start with, but after pushing through a real tight patch, it started to come out green, which presumably is copper.
Any other ideas on what to try? I've not had any experience with filling a barrel with bore solvent yet.
Someone told me im wasting my time and that a dirty 303 shoots better which i think is BS, probably just taking the pics lol.

You will need to get a copper solvent like sweets. Hoppes is ok for regular cleaning but typically won’t lift bad jacket fouling
I agree it’s bs. Should shoot better removed depending on the bore of course it could be that the bore is badly corroded underneath which is why the fouling is so bad
With new milsurps I strip out everything and start again
JBs is also good stuff

One trick I was shown about 40 years ago for cleaning barrels was steel wool. A few grains of shotgun powder in a case and a wad of fine steel wool on top scraped the crud quite well. Easiest with straight wall cases mind you. I also read somewhere that silica flour "bullets" work the same way. I've only done it on a few old BP rifles and they came up well, pitted but smooth and all rust gone. I see no reason to believe it wouldn't shift copper as well

Originally Posted by omark

You will need to get a copper solvent like sweets. Hoppes is ok for regular cleaning but typically won’t lift bad jacket fouling
I agree it’s bs. Should shoot better removed depending on the bore of course it could be that the bore is badly corroded underneath which is why the fouling is so bad
With new milsurps I strip out everything and start again
JBs is also good stuff

I get the feeling this is a typical sight to see on most 303 rifles. Its probably also an indicator how well it was looked after in the days of corrosive ammo.
I know that corrosion can continue with layers of fouling trapping the salts in the pores of the steel, so is probably good to give this thing a decent clean once and for all, whatever damage is likely done, but that being said, it has a very tight bore for a 303, shoots pretty accurate and im getting tight 1 inch groupings at 50m.
I see a product talked about alot called collings no 90 barrel solvent, seems to have good reviews, do you know alot about that?
Presuming i get back to a nice clean bore, going forward, how many patches should it take to clean it out after a days shoot at the range of say 40-50 rounds?
I think it will be good to get a gunsmith to check it out at some stage with a bore scope too. I have a few spare barrels too that I should get cleaned and checked over.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

One trick I was shown about 40 years ago for cleaning barrels was steel wool. A few grains of shotgun powder in a case and a wad of fine steel wool on top scraped the crud quite well. Easiest with straight wall cases mind you. I also read somewhere that silica flour "bullets" work the same way. I've only done it on a few old BP rifles and they came up well, pitted but smooth and all rust gone. I see no reason to believe it wouldn't shift copper as well

That looks an interesting trick, might be worth a shot, excuse the pun!
I wonder how well that would work in an old shotgun of mine with a pitted bore?

Spectacularly well and spectacular at the same time.

Now I just have to try that!
I wonder how well that would work if you used the steel wool as the wad itself and put lead shot after it to keep the pressure around the steel wool as it runs down the barrel?

Cupronickel is just a different mix of a copper alloy used as a bullet jacket. The bullets were notorious for "nickelling up" .303 barrels. The "nickel' fouling is, of course, all copper.

Nickel spinner anyone?

Boretch copper solvent applied with a nylon brush......scrub it backwards and forwards for a minute or two. leave it for ten and patch it dry. Scrub again with a bronze bristle brush with Boretech carbon solvent, leave also for ten minutes and patch out until dry, then again with the copper solvent repeating each sequence until clean.

If you are careful and game to try both brushes on a battery drill but should really be done checking with a bore scope to ensure only the fouling is being removed.....!!!

That steel wool trick was also used for explosive charges to ignite napalm. They were nick named 'soapbox charges', as you filled a soapbox with steel wool and topped off with 2 or 3 sheets of sheet explosive, then strapped onto the side of a plastic jerrycan of napalm. worked spectacularly brilliantly

Originally Posted by John Duxbury

Cupronickel is just a different mix of a copper alloy used as a bullet jacket. The bullets were notorious for "nickelling up" .303 barrels. The "nickel' fouling is, of course, all copper.

Well thats just it, its not an alloy, its two layers with a copper jacket nickel plated over the top it seems, i will get a photo later to show you what I mean, I may as well polish it all off in the tumbler if its indeed as bad as what everyone is saying.
It was around 1943 that they stopped making the stuff and switched to copper. Ive got some rounds made that year that have both types.

Originally Posted by XR500

That steel wool trick was also used for explosive charges to ignite napalm. They were nick named 'soapbox charges', as you filled a soapbox with steel wool and topped off with 2 or 3 sheets of sheet explosive, then strapped onto the side of a plastic jerrycan of napalm. worked spectacularly brilliantly

It may clean up the local area but I'm not so sure about it cleaning your barrel though

Originally Posted by Old_School

Now I just have to try that!
I wonder how well that would work if you used the steel wool as the wad itself and put lead shot after it to keep the pressure around the steel wool as it runs down the barrel?

That's the best way