Firearms over all length current legislation

Can anyone put up a link to the current legal description of A Cat firearms over all length ?

I know it's 30" 762mm
But specifically want to part about continuous bore or rifling
Or if it has been amended to inclusive of permenantly attached muzzle devices included

I personally find the NZ Police web site pretty hard to navigate
Sometimes the search engine doesn't find certain forms even when I have the exact same one in my hands

Anyone who can help in sending me to the exact spot to read the current version much appreciated

Cheers

Technically there is no definition an "a cat firearm"

There are definitions of what is NOT an a cat firearm, e.g. the relevant one

pistol means a firearm (other than a prohibited firearm or restricted weapon) that is designed or adapted to be held and fired with 1 hand, and includes any firearm (other than a prohibited firearm or restricted weapon) that is less than 762 millimetres in length


any interpretation beyond that is down to jurisprudence and precedent

Can't help with an exact reference but There are many 12 inch or less barrelled rifles especially .22 around, as long as the overall length in firing configuration exceeds 30 inches it's ok. There re folding stock rifles that are shorter than that when folded but as long as the stock folds to block the action they are permitted.
It's all a bit of a mish mash cut and paste.

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Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Can't help with an exact reference but There are many 12 inch or less barrelled rifles especially .22 around, as long as the overall length in firing configuration exceeds 30 inches it's ok. There re folding stock rifles that are shorter than that when folded but as long as the stock folds to block the action they are permitted.
It's all a bit of a mish mash cut and paste.

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Yes I entirely agree. Barrel length is not specified and over all length is the items that is
But there is a definition somewhere of what and where the bore or rifling ends which is taken as the over all length

Its there somewhere

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Originally Posted by akaroa1

Yes I entirely agree. Barrel length is not specified and over all length is the items that is
But there is a definition somewhere of what and where the bore or rifling ends which is taken as the over all length

Its there somewhere

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Not in the arms act or regulations. There is no definition in legislation; there will be some judicial decisions giving precedent most likely however it is very difficult to find them

I remember reading somewhere that the stock can also be counted for OAL, meaning if you have an AR with an 8" barrel and a nested suppressor then its fine as long as the butt to end of the hand guard is over 762.

@gundoc do you have any hard facts or info on this ?

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Originally Posted by akaroa1

@gundoc do you have any hard facts or info on this ?

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name or reference of specific judicial decisions is the relevant piece of information if you have it!

Went to court over this with Nick Taylor to get a definition. Check his website for a summary.
The judge was a purple haired liberal whose son was one of the entitled Queenstown couple who flaunted covid lockdown.
From memory we lost but she accidentally granted access by reclassifying sbr’s mp5 and Uzi as pistols… which gave pistol nz something to think about.
I think you’re safe as long as your stock doesn’t fold your gun under 762mm and any muzzle devices require a tool to remove. But do t quote me on that as the cop on the day will make you do whatever.

Been a case here in the uk. Basically ended with a magazine feed .22 pistol with a piece of bar welded to the bottom to act as a stock and a moderator on the front. Which overall length the classed it as a rifle.
Judge ruled it as a rifle as that’s what the law said it is. The police are not happy. I’ll see if I can find a pic.

https://ukshootingnews.wordpress.com...omment-page-1/

Attachment 210322

Lol food for thought.

LOL some one is taking the Piss with that one Eh ?

Not even a proper shoulder stock on that one, I think ever time a Cop finds one of these he should take the owner in !

The Arms Act (Section 2) defines a pistol as follows: pistol means a firearm (other than a prohibited firearm or restricted weapon) that is designed or adapted to be held and fired with 1 hand, and includes any firearm (other than a prohibited firearm or restricted weapon) that is less than 762 millimetres in length. I was involved in a case many years ago where the person was charged with unlawful possession of a pistol. The Police had measured the length of the rifle at just under 762mm, and I measured it at about 765mm. I took my tape measure to the Dept of Weights & Measures (long since defunct) and had checked and certified for accuraccy and then we went to Court. It transpired that the Police had measured from the muzzle parallel with the bore to a point that was at exact right angles to the end of the butt, whereas I measured from the muzzle to the toe of the stock. My argument (upheld by the Court) was that the Oxford dictionary definition of the 'length' of an object is the distance between the two furthermost points, and that the Police measurement was wrong because they had measured from one end to a point in space. As NZ legislation is required by law to be written and interpreted in 'plain English' then the definition of the Oxford dictionary (the authority on the English language) trumps what may have been improper Police practice for many years. What is actually written in an Act is what it actually means in 'plain English' and poor drafting that does not accurately convey the intention of Parliament means the legislation takes second place to the meaning of the actual wording. There are other instances of poor drafting in Acts that render them impotent in some areas. The 'length' of a firearm only includes the fixtures that are normally part of it and does not include suppressors unless they are designed to be an integral part (eg: the De Lisle carbine). There is no barrel length involved. Folding stocks are a problem unless they are designed in a manner that actively prevents the firearm from firing when in the folded position.

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Originally Posted by Scout

LOL some one is taking the Piss with that one Eh ?

Not even a proper shoulder stock on that one, I think ever time a Cop finds one of these he should take the owner in !

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You missed what I said in #10 it’s in the UK that this is legal! As defined by UK firearms law. It’s a .22 so the cops have tried to take the owner in……………..and the court said carry on son you done naught wrong:thumbsup:

Gunworks cut down my norico 22 barrel to 14".That was near minimum as overall rifle length wasnt shorter than 762mm.

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Originally Posted by gundoc

The Arms Act (Section 2) defines a pistol as follows: pistol means a firearm (other than a prohibited firearm or restricted weapon) that is designed or adapted to be held and fired with 1 hand, and includes any firearm (other than a prohibited firearm or restricted weapon) that is less than 762 millimetres in length.

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So does that mean prohibited firearms (P endorsed) don't need to be above 762?

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Originally Posted by Mintie

So does that mean prohibited firearms (P endorsed) don't need to be above 762?

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https://www.police.govt.nz/advice-se...bited-firearms

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Originally Posted by akaroa1

Can anyone put up a link to the current legal description of A Cat firearms over all length ?
I know it's 30" 762mm
But specifically want to part about continuous bore or rifling
Or if it has been amended to inclusive of permenantly attached muzzle devices included

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There is nothing about "about continuous bore or rifling" in the Arms Act. A permanently fixed suppressor (no rifling) can be used as the measurement endpoint for a rifle's overall length.
Example: I contacted the Police Arms Officer about the legality of a shortened barrel with a fixed suppressor.
The response was:

“If the modification of adapting a suppressor is permanent and from the butt of the rifle to the end of the permanently fixed suppressor exceeds the overall length of a pistol, I don’t see an issue. I would suggest a local arms officer inspect it upon completion to ensure that the modification is indeed permanent and complies with legislative correctness".

Note. Arms Act 1983 defines pistol - means a firearm (other than a prohibited firearm or restricted weapon) that is designed or adapted to be held and fired with 1 hand, and includes any firearm (other than a prohibited firearm or restricted weapon) that is less than 762 millimetres in length

Regards

Paul McLennan
District Arms Officer | Tauranga & Whakatane | New Zealand Police
Phone +64 7 5774300 Extn: 77112 | Direct Dial 07 5774412
Tauranga Police Station, 11 Monmouth Street, P O Box 144, Tauranga 3140