First rifle considerations

Gidday all,

The age old question: I'm in the market for my first centrefire rifle. I'm sure this is a well trod topic and I have done some searching. I'm in the information gathering phase so any new perspective is appreciated

Some background:

I'm a new hunter wanting to get a good versatile rifle that will last me a while.

Prefer to get the whole package i.e scope/suppressor so I can get out to the range and into the bush, and figure out where improvements can be made later. But not opposed to getting rifle/optics/can separately if the right deal/s come up.

I've only really looked at .308 so far but I'm open to most calibers (opening the proverbial can of worms here), as long as it does the job for deer (reds mostly) and goats. I have shot a bit before so not too worried about the bite. I would like to get a lot of range time in with this gun to get some practice so (factory) ammo price is a consideration.

I'm based in Auckland, but two areas I've done a bit of looking around in are the Waikato side of the Kaimais/Thompson's Track & Pureora forest/Piropiro Flats. They're accessible to me and I'd like to hunt around these areas to start with.

My budget is around $1400 - 1800 for the whole package and there seems to be a bit out there in the price range if I'm buying second hand. I've been through the local stores and had some helpful and not so helpful advice & handled quite a few different rifles to get a feel for them. I've yet to shoot anything in my search but I'm once I've gone through the membership process for NZDA (next week) I'll hopefully get out to the range and give a few different rifles a go.

Some questions:

-If you were buying now what would you be looking at? This is different for everyone but I'm interested in where you all see value at the moment.

-How short is too short on a .308 barrel? 16? 18? I've read 18 is the sweet spot for a bush rifle but have seen a couple rifles locally I like the handling (and price) of at 16 -- will this just cause me headaches as a first rifle?

- Quality optics -- should I focus on getting a quality rifle and a serviceable scope or is it worth the investment off the bat for something good? What would you be looking at as decent optics to start out with?

- Buying sight unseen. Silly if you're in the market for a car, same with a rifle? If I'm familiar with the handling of the rifle etc. is it sensible to buy off Trademe -- I know they have buyer protection but I could see that coming apart in the case of a firearm. Again there are a few I like the look of but are a bit far afield to get in person. As a first rifle I'm erring on the side of something I can pick up and give a look over.
(Alternately I'd be happy to buy off here, although I'm a new member I can't yet see the buy sell page from what I've read it's just a matter of waiting)

- And basically anything else you lot have picked up in your dealings. I know there's a lot of experience here and surely a few cautionary tales. It will be a big purchase for me so I'm not in a huge rush -- although I am keen to get out there soon.

Thanks for your help.

Problem with packages is that one component often lets down the whole lot, usually the scope. I think .308 is a good start, but consider .243 as well. Don't buy anything weird. It may be the next best calibre, but that isn't any use if you can't buy ammo for it. There have been shortages of late.

As for barrel length, I like short barrels, the shorter the better, my preference, but they are also good in the bush. There's going to be some groans, but Tikka bring out a new bush hunter model in the New Year. .308, 16 inch barrel, threaded for a suppressor I believe. I'm going to get one as soon as they come out. Dithered on the last batch and missed out. Having driven myself slightly crazy looking at all the other options, this fits my needs and budget the best. Yours may differ. I'm also hoping registration will have gone away by then!

As a rule, I don't buy secondhand stuff as it's often been thrashed, but there is the odd good deal to be had. I definitely wouldn't buy an unseen rifle unless it was from a forum member that I trusted.

Howa 1500 offers good value for money 16-20 inch 308 will be a good all rounder and plenty of ammo options, scope a vixen or crimson trace anything from Japan will get you going and rings is the one place along with bases if you that way to not skimp on. Just my thoughts and experiences

Having been shooting over 60 yrs and was one of the first hunters to try the short barrel craze( back in 74) I am now convinced it's a crazy idea, stick to 22 min or better still 24, that's the sweet spot.
My 2c

https://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hun...4395120546.htm
job done....

The above recommendation is good!

308 good and versatile, efficient and long barrel life

Tikka would be an other good brand that shoots very well out of the box

Stay away from gun$hittys ranger scopes and rings.

Talley rings are good and affordable.

Scope: entry level burris or leupolds will serve you well.

Suppressor: I like the modularity of my dpt...

Just a couple of points for comparing different calibres:

Unless you are going to use Maximum Point Blank Range, don't compair bullet drop. Use danger space instead:
Let's say the deer is at 400m and the vitals are 200mm across.
Set your zero distance to 400m and take note of what distance the bullet is 100mm above and below the target.
Subtract the Max distance from the Min, and that's your danger space.
The bigger the value the better.

Also keep the sectional density similar when comparing different calibres for a fair comparison.

I was in your position just shy of 2 year ago. Went .308 for ease and cost of ammo and cheaper to suppress than .270.

Was going to buy a Howa package as it was everything and in that bracket. Everyone told me to go tikka so I saved a little longer and went for H&F deal $2100 with burris 4.5-14/rings/bag/bipod/no suppressor, and factory threaded at 20” which made picking up a can later easy. It’s ticked every box I needed too and Gamehead ammo is cheap ($65/20) and shoots it well. Was my first rifle and shooting centre fire so bloody glad I held out for something that works out of the box. Most animals I’ve taken have been at 2-300yards and I’m not a decent shooter at all.

Cut it down to 16” after reading how much of a terrible idea it is and the odd person posting small losses. Only lost 103fps doing it and guns nicer balanced and fits pack better. Wouldn’t bother buying a bush hunter unless you can get a package for similar money.

Can’t go past that deal imo adding suppressor or shortening is easy later.

Most of these questions have indeed been discussed at length before of this forum. I recommend a bit of searching to read the previous threads on these topics to expand the range of answers and information available.

For the sake of brevity here are my opinions;

- Don’t limit yourself with one single choice of calibre in the search for a rifle. Make a shortlist of 5 or 6 suitable calibres for NZ Hunting (there are more than that) and pick a rifle in good condition, at a price point that suits your budget. Picking a specific calibre before finding the rifle severely limits your choices. Buying good used will save you money to spend elsewhere.
- Ditto for the optic. Don’t pick a specific brand, model or magnification. Allow yourself a range of suitable choices that will fit your needs. There is a plethora of choice.
- Being concerned about barrel length is often misplaced. Get some time on the tools with your rifle before you make a decision in that area. You may find it’s not a concern at all, and if it is, you can rectify it later.
- if you don’t want to buy based on auction photographs and descriptions, you are again limiting yourself to buying in person at auctions & shows, or gun stores. There is nothing wrong with that, but it’s a limiting factor and you might just be missing out on what you want as it comes up on this forum or TM. Personally I buy mostly in person at auctions but there are now less of these to choose from. I never buy from gun stores, their range of used firearms is limit, the profit margin and pricing is much too high compared to buying used firearms direct from a seller or at auctions.
- Try borrowing a few firearms for a few hunts (if possible). You may just find that a certain rifle or calibre is actually not to your tastes, or you find something you really like unexpectedly. It also broadens your experience.
- Lastly, if this is the beginning of your hunting and firearms owning journey, your first firearms is not likely to be your last. You will own many over the years. Don’t stress over the first one. Most of us didn’t marry the girl that popped our cherry so grab whatever tickles your fancy, and if you don’t like it, move on to something else.

My subjective 0.02c

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Northlandnewbie

Cut it down to 16” after reading how much of a terrible idea it is and the odd person posting small losses. Only lost 103fps doing it and guns nicer balanced and fits pack better. Wouldn’t bother buying a bush hunter unless you can get a package for similar money.

---

Can I ask your reasoning on the bush hunter?

308 with any length barrel you want

DPT suppressed and VX3-HD 2.5-10

150g Gamekings

15 inch 308
Attachment 236448

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bushline

https://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hun...4395120546.htm
job done....

---

If I was in the market for a .308 I would seriously consider this. Ticks all your boxes, Howas are bloody good value rifles, and this one is already suppressed. Quite a decent scope too

.223, .243, .308, .270, .7mm 08 are probably the 5 most common calibres in NZ. Add in 30.06 as well all have good amounts of factory ammo. The new calibres like PRC, creedmoor might be new and exciting to some but ammo choice is much less and more expensive.
I have a 22.250 and a .308 both bought second hand and happy with both.

Howard 308. Leopold scope.
Howard is great out there bix. Leopold has great backup

Make sure your package has a low magnification at the bottom end if you're going to be bush hunting. 2 or 3 at the bottom end is good for field of view. 3-9 or 2-10 would cover most scenarios from 40m to 300m.
If you can save just a little bit more you could buy a 22LR for range practice, which would save you lots on ammo. I just did that. By my calculations my 22 will pay for itself once I've shot 100 rounds through it vs my centrefire.
The rifles both weigh similar, are the same length and have the same scope magnification range.

Identify your target beyond all doubt because you never miss (right?) and I'll be missed.

Cheers for the input everyone. Really appreciate everybody giving their 2 cents to a newbie, this forum is really valuable for someone just getting into the thick of things.

Have been looking for a while, especially at that Howa (hence the barrel length question) and with some nudging from you fellas have just hit the buy now.

@-BW- your advice about not stressing too much is much appreciated. I liked the Howas I handled, the optics seem good at the price point, already suppressed, and I like the look of the Boyd stock, well within the budget, so probably best not to overthink it. If it all looks good when I go to pick up then we're away.

We can spend a lot of time worrying about the "perfect" buy but really that can only come with experience. In the meantime here's hoping with a bit of practice I can fill the freezer.

When I got into hunting I had a howa .243 and cut my teeth with it which was perfect. I then thought I knew better and got a 300win mag although shot a heap of animals with it I lost a heap more than I would have with the .243 due to shot placement. I have since gone around in a circle with rifles I’ve shot with. I now shoot a 18inch 308 which I now shoot animals at further distances than I ever would have with the larger calibres due to my set up and the things I’ve learnt. My point is get some thing that’s going to be nice to shoot and ammo available. Which ever calibre you end up with i Guarantee that what you start with is not what you stick with due to multiple reasons. You’ll soon think you need a different caliber or more/ less zoom longer/shorter barrel. Once you have learnt your hunting style and what sort of terrain you end up majority shooting you’ll tweak to suit that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MB

Can I ask your reasoning on the bush hunter?

---

No issue with the bush hunter just isn’t a package (that I’ve seen) that delivers the bang for buck the HNF/Beretta 20” threaded carbine/Burris deal does. Easy to spend 2k and have everything turn key then add suppressor later for someone starting out as opposed to 3k ish by memory for BH package which had less add ons. The guncity packages have the cheap scopes or did every time I’ve seen them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Northlandnewbie

No issue with the bush hunter just isn’t a package (that I’ve seen) that delivers the bang for buck the HNF/Beretta 20” threaded carbine/Burris deal does. Easy to spend 2k and have everything turn key then add suppressor later for someone starting out as opposed to 3k ish by memory for BH package which had less add ons. The guncity packages have the cheap scopes or did every time I’ve seen them.

---

I'm not keen on the packages either. As for the rifle, if you're going to cut the barrel down, you have to weigh up the cost of doing so and cost/hassle of shipping a rifle if you don't have a gunsmith on your doorstep.

The last iteration. I understand the new one will have a standard Tikka barrel.

https://i.ibb.co/cCBJhHM/Screen-Shot...t-18-58-31.png

Tikka T3x Superlite 308 with VX3HD 2-10x42

Maybe slightly out of your budget but will do everything for NZ.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by veryfuturistic

Cheers for the input everyone. Really appreciate everybody giving their 2 cents to a newbie, this forum is really valuable for someone just getting into the thick of things.

Have been looking for a while, especially at that Howa (hence the barrel length question) and with some nudging from you fellas have just hit the buy now.

@-BW- your advice about not stressing too much is much appreciated. I liked the Howas I handled, the optics seem good at the price point, already suppressed, and I like the look of the Boyd stock, well within the budget, so probably best not to overthink it. If it all looks good when I go to pick up then we're away.

We can spend a lot of time worrying about the "perfect" buy but really that can only come with experience. In the meantime here's hoping with a bit of practice I can fill the freezer.

---

well I very very nearly bought a HOWA 1500 in .308 as it came up so well..but as had lots of lovely .270 components went that way instead. got gunworks to fit suppressor to it as I bought rifle off them... first 11 shots broke in barrel,3 different ammunition types sat in group hovering around an inch at hundred yards,12th shot took a deer. its been absolute dream rifle with zero issues AND you can now buy walnut stock as seperate component for couple or three hundy bucks to replace the hogue if synthetic isnt your thing.
I really cannot fault the howa...trigger is nice enough to shoot well with. yip its a little bit heavy..but Im a lot heavy so no big deal.

my Howa was 1/3rd price of that tikka minus scope.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

my Howa was 1/3rd price of that tikka minus scope.....

---

Sorry MD, it's still a howa!

Sent from my SM-A226B using Tapatalk

For the budget range you could get a nice Howa or Ruger in 308. I've had/have both brands and they are both great shooters. Personally I'd go for the ruger predator, 18", already threaded (which is worth a couple of hundred if you get done later), nice trigger, stock is a bit plastic but is nice and light (I found my howa heavy).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by veryfuturistic

Cheers for the input everyone. Really appreciate everybody giving their 2 cents to a newbie, this forum is really valuable for someone just getting into the thick of things.

Have been looking for a while, especially at that Howa (hence the barrel length question) and with some nudging from you fellas have just hit the buy now.

@-BW- your advice about not stressing too much is much appreciated. I liked the Howas I handled, the optics seem good at the price point, already suppressed, and I like the look of the Boyd stock, well within the budget, so probably best not to overthink it. If it all looks good when I go to pick up then we're away.

We can spend a lot of time worrying about the "perfect" buy but really that can only come with experience. In the meantime here's hoping with a bit of practice I can fill the freezer.

---

Cool thing with buying in today's market is it's actually pretty hard to go wrong. All the established brands make an accurate, functional entry level bolt gun. Spending more money gets nicer finishes nicer materials etc but they don't make animals anymore dead.

7mm08, 6.5 creed or 308 are pretty much interchangeable.

Likewise with scopes we are spoiled for choice. Lots of awesome options at a good price these days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by andyanimal31

Sorry MD, it's still a howa!

Sent from my SM-A226B using Tapatalk

---

Yip which means it not a plastic spastic tikka lol

Fkn top feed mag
Worse invention ever
Inherently unsafe

Let's try not to turn this thread in to a slanging match about which rifle is best. You wouldn't think it, but I'm not a Tikka fanboy. I sold my last one and was pretty keen not to buy another. I've gone back on that because nothing else ticks all my boxes. Your needs may differ.

Out of all the plastic stocks out there my tikka would be the best in a factory rifle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blip

Out of all the plastic stocks out there my tikka would be the best in a factory rifle.

---

Agreed, ergos are still a bit shit, but they are pretty stiff

Funny how these threads go off on a tangent and the tikka / howa debate start both have there short comings and individual Merritt based on user use, but the original question was I have a budget what fits into it tikkas are getting up there in price and outside the total budget to spend where money would be better spent on optics and mounts/rings

Thats the thing.

a decent 308 (or similar) bolt action rifle will (provided the ideologues dont succeed in banning them) provide a viable hunting tool for decades. a few hundred bucks dont make any difference over that timeframe.

But having something cheap that does potentially not shoot well will cost you more in wasted ammo, game animals and the fact that youll buy a proper gun the second time.

Luckily nowadays its not juat the tikkas that are great shooters. Looking at tm and the large amount of guns that are being sold. I dont see many tikkas in non exotic caliberes there, which to me indicates people are keeping them.

So no you dont have to buy a tikka, there are other options (howa being one of them), but whatever you do buy something that you know will do the job well.

Buy the rifle that fits you n feels good. Try as many brands as you can.

Scopes. Worlds your oyster. Get one that will relate to the type of hunting you envison doing.

Bit of a suppressor fan boy now so yes to that.

Calibre: .308 is a good starting point. Don't currently have but certainly would have another one.

Enjoy

Sent from my SM-T225 using Tapatalk

Greetings,
It appears that .308 rifles. that I have owned, numbers 1,5,6 and 7 are still here. Just pick one that fits you. All you need to know really.
Grandpamac.
PS 1 and 7 have suppressors and 5 and 6 are target rifles.

Just buy my howa scout 308 18" barrel threaded open sights bottom metal + plastic with a rail as new but pick up 800 as new .

Definitely look into the 270 they’re a great calibre and plenty of ammo around 20” barrel and a nice optic buy individual parts but if your buying new there’s a nice gun shop broncos Tauranga.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk