Getting the most out of a 308.

I recently bought a Howa with a nice Bell & Carlson stock on it.Someone cut the barrel back to 16" and put a A-tec can on it. Good rig for tight stuff but not what I want for shooting at Reindyr up to 500m.

Lothar-Walther has a special on Crome Molly Barrels at the moment and they have some .30 cal tubes up to 28" in length.I want to be chucking as heavy a bullet as I can up to my maximum self imposed shooting limit of 500 m. I bought a second hand S&B PMii with recknagle rings so thats the glass side of the equation covered,I dont like bipods so I would be resting the rifle on my pack for long shots.

My questions are:

1) Is it worth paying extra for a 28" barrel?

2) Should I look for any rifling twist in particular?

There is a long range shooting range just down the road with regular classes.I will join up and get to learn the Rifle and combo but have to get this project thrown together fairly quickly.

Thanks in advance.

Personally I wouldn't consider the 308win to have enough powder capacity to warrant a 28" barrel.

Your twist rate will be determined by what you define as "heavy" pills.

I shoot 155gr & 185gr projectiles out of a 1:10 twist 32" True-Flite barrel in FTR out to 1000 yards.

Twist rate is faster than needed for those weights but doesn't seem to hurt accuracy.

200 gr projectiles would require the 1:10

Have just replaced a barrel that shot over 6000 185 gr projectiles before starting to spread the groups.

You can get 2900f/s out of a 26" bbl and 155 grain bullets with a little care.

a long heavy barrel will make it sweet to shoot and render the need for a suppressor unnecessary,the muzzle is that little bit further from your ears and the powder will be completely burnt so it will be quieter and sound quieter if that makes sence??? if you have one,thread muzzle anyway,either it will be good to use or not...either way the little bit of $$$ to thread wont hurt.
the difference between 20-30" shotgun barrels is huge noise wise.

if you have it long throated as most .308s are you will be able to seat long if needed ,but the theory with 08 is to seat deep enough to give it good square starting point. the little bit extra weight wont hurt either. fit a good recoil pad like a limbsaver and it will be VERY nice to shoot.
you have other stock so are avoiding the issue with hogue bending....

For comparison, my 2010 308 AIAW came with a factory 26” Lothar Walther 1/12 twist barrel optimised for 155s and goes real good with a PMII.
I would have said they’d know a thing or two about 308s and barrels so therefore buy with confidence.
I have some 168 ELD-Ms to try but haven’t shot them yet, seems to be plenty of guys overseas shooting 208s through theirs with success though.
Would also be worth while exploring 1/10 twist for the 308 with the heavy projectiles.

All depends on how far and high you will be carrying it really. If you have motorised transport to a lookout, go hard with a long tube. If you do much trekking to hunt, I’d keep it to a max of 24”. I had a Remington 5R with a 24”’barrel and was getting great velocity with 168gr ELD-Ms. Easily good to 600yds, and you could push 750 with a lot of practice and skill. It was lovely to shoot, as it was 11lb with a 4-20x scope and a truck axle profile barrel. NOT nice to carry long and high, hence it no longer lives with me.
Twist on the 5R is 1:11.2”
Another thing to think about is apparently a lot of weight in a barrel can cause negative effects on accuracy, if the action can’t handle the weight.

I dont mind heavy guns but I would rather a light one.

I had to carry 78kg, 20km through some mountains last year.

Character building and knee wrecking in equal measure. This time we will shoot a buck beyween us and share the load out. Downside is the country we will be hunting in is even more ugly than last time.

Epic mate! I’ve spent a little time in Norway, enough to know I’d love to go back again and go for a hunt local style.

Gnarly scrub man !
In that sort of country, I'd go for 28 inches and bare.
What power is the PM II ?

With my experience of using rifles with tubes at 26"and longer you could not give me one. While i agree if carefully loaded you can get close to 3000 fps with 150/155s in fullbore rifles you don't need this for a 500 meter target/reindeer when a 24 inch tube will give you 2850+ fps.

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Originally Posted by Bagheera

Gnarly scrub man !
In that sort of country, I'd go for 28 inches and bare.
What power is the PM II ?

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I just ordered a 26" because the 28" was sold out. The money saved from ordering that longer tube will pay for the barrel fluting. I wont get it blued I will cerocoat it or paint it.

The S&B is 4-16x42 with illum.

Now the question is: What profile I should have it turned down to?

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Originally Posted by norsk

The S&B is 4-16x42 with illum.

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Perfect power range match for a 308 in open country as pictured.

Good scope for the job.
How much more would it have been for the extra 2 inches ?
Im not an expert. 26 sounds long to me.

We could all do with another two inches……

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Originally Posted by Moutere

We could all do with another two inches……

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Just marry an Asian lady.

26 will be plenty.
Send them a dummy round with your intended projectile seated out at max mag length so they can throat the chamber to suit.
You don't want to be seating 200gr plus projectiles in at Saami lenght it takes up too much case volume.

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

26 will be plenty.
Send them a dummy round with your intended projectile seated out at max mag length so they can throat the chamber to suit.
You don't want to be seating 200gr plus projectiles in at Saami lenght it takes up too much case volume.

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Ok.

Max length that will fit in the magazine?

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Originally Posted by Hunter_Nick

Another thing to think about is apparently a lot of weight in a barrel can cause negative effects on accuracy, if the action can’t handle the weight.

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I put a heavy 26" tube on a 6.5x55 in a wooden stock. I just glass bedded the first 4" of barrel and it went mint.I will have to open the barrel channel on the plastic stock so I will likely bed that too. Good on you for pointing it out though.

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Originally Posted by norsk

Ok.

Max length that will fit in the magazine?

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Yep max that will fit and function properly, usually about 0.5-1mm shorter than the maximum internal mag lenght.

Necking down to 6.5 or 7mm will make the most of a 308

The dirty old 308 has made a huge resurgance during the Covid craziness. Lol never seen so many 6.5PRC's, or Creedmores for sale because components werent available. Good to know with the huge variety of 30 cal goodies you can still shoot during a pandemic or supply issues. From an accuracy perspective the 308 is as good as anything else, you just need to add on a little more windage than other cartridges. Watched a mate pop many bunnies & magpies at distances exceeding 1000yds with his FTR rifle with stupid regularity.
I've gone against the grain having all my centfire fire rifle 30 cal. 300 Blackout for ninja moments, 308 for do everything, 300 Norma for long range wacking. 30 cal's kill exceeding well & with more safety margin when shots get misplaced.

..

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Originally Posted by Longrun

Necking down to 6.5 or 7mm will make the most of a 308

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Until you need ammo or components!

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Originally Posted by Longrun

Necking down to 6.5 or 7mm will make the most of a 308

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Who said trolls are dead..

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Originally Posted by Longrun

Necking down to 6.5 or 7mm will make the most of a 308

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He's hunting Reindeer not rats.

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Originally Posted by 6x47

Who said trolls are dead..

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Bereft of humour

Put the sling on the barrel and the extra length isn't an issue

What exactly is the issue with a 16 barrel ?

I have a 14 inch 7-08, and would happily shoot it out to 400m plus with lighter projectiles.

At the end of the day all bullets drop, no matter what the launch speed. It is really a dial-up issue more than anything else.

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Originally Posted by ebf

What exactly is the issue with a 16 barrel ?

I have a 14 inch 7-08, and would happily shoot it out to 400m plus with lighter projectiles.

At the end of the day all bullets drop, no matter what the launch speed. It is really a dial-up issue more than anything else.

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Would you consider 16" to be the optimal 308 barrel length for open country? As stated at the start,I am looking for the best barrel length to suit my very specific requirements.

I have a 45/90 too,maybe you should have one as well? Because the difference between a 16" 308 and a 45/90 must surely be just a matter of dial up?

Or maybe thats not what this thread is about.

I ask again, what is the specific issue ?

Are you looking for a particular speed that is not achievable with a 16 inch barrel ?

"Optimal" is a question of opinion. Probably 22 to 24 inch if you go by what most manufacturers choose as a stock length.

500m really is not that far, hence my comments above. Even with pretty sedate MV you should be able to get out to that in a single rotation of dial...

If you wanted a 308 to have supersonic speed at 1000 yds for F-class, then sure, 28 to 30 inch barrel come into play.

The specific issue is that we are not discussing the merits of a 16" Barrel.

Nor the suitability of a 45/90

Or John Deere vs Massy Fergusson.

We are discussing the optimal barrel length for biffing heavy pills at medium ranges.Please read the thread from the beginning because I would like to hear from people who have experience in the topic being discussed and not some random throwing statements out there in an attempt to graft his version of relevance into what was forming into a interesting discussion.

righto, so some "random" comments.

You seem to have settled on a 26 inch barrel.

Hopefully a 1:10 twist - that gives you a nice spread from 150gr all the way up to 230gr.

The one suggestion I would make is to not overlook mid-weight projectile options. For several years we tried to push the boundaries in FTR with heavy projectiles. Everything from 208 to 230 in 308 cases. Using Palma brass / small primer absolutely helps - much stronger base in the case, and able to handle higher pressures. The real issue with longer barrels and heavier projectiles in 308 is rotational force. In the FTR world it is specific to bipods (I know you said you don't use one). The bottom line is whatever way you support the rifle, heavy projectiles cause a significant twisting action. After trying the 200's, most guys eventually came back to 185gr - it seems to be the magic number for 308 at distance. It is a weight of projectile most people find they can shoot well, without having to significantly improve their recoil management.

The fact that most magnum hunting rifles had 26" barrels suggests that this is about optimum for carryability / performance. The 308 might only need 24" to wring most of the performance out, but a 26" would be a lot more saleable if you didnt like it. I would go a long throated or (how ever it is that the target shooters suggest) 26" and see what its like.

For the 185s we typically throated 100 thou extra. If you are using 220 or 230 pills you might even want to go longer that that.

At 100 thou extra, with high BC projectile shapes, you are no longer mag loading. So I guess it depends if mag loading is a requirement or not.

My Rem 308 is 24 inch. I was using 165gr super perforance ssts just straight factory and i was getting 2820fps out of it, plenty out to 500m.(not that i shoot that far lol).
Doubt you really need to go longer than that.

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Originally Posted by deer243

My Rem 308 is 24 inch. I was using 165gr super perforance ssts just straight factory and i was getting 2820fps out of it, plenty out to 500m.(not that i shoot that far lol).
Doubt you really need to go longer than that.

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aha...NOW I see where your issues with .308 stem from....... horrible hot loads,perfect for out long but not a patch on a soft 180 up close n personal...... one of these days I will get you edumacated and using PROPER bush loads in that cannon.....
strewth that load combo would be more volitile than the EBRG loads.....at 50 yards would be almost a varmit loading.....
Ducking for cover.....

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

aha...NOW I see where your issues with .308 stem from....... horrible hot loads,perfect for out long but not a patch on a soft 180 up close n personal...... one of these days I will get you edumacated and using PROPER bush loads in that cannon.....
strewth that load combo would be more volitile than the EBRG loads.....at 50 yards would be almost a varmit loading.....
Ducking for cover.....

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@Micky Duck true, thats why i ditched the 165gr ssts, going to fast for 50m hahaha. My 308 was intended for longer range thou Micky(243 for close)
But of cause i like a change now and again and it comes for a walk....using fed fusion 165 gr now and the 3 deer shot so far with it going good.