Anyone used the factory rounds for hunting?
Hornady have added some new subsonic cartridges. Look interesting!
300 Blackout
30-30 Winchester
450 Bushmaster
45-70 Government
https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/#!/
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Anyone used the factory rounds for hunting?
Hornady have added some new subsonic cartridges. Look interesting!
300 Blackout
30-30 Winchester
450 Bushmaster
45-70 Government
https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/#!/
Nope, but I have some of the 190s to load, maybe this afternoon.
They may not be stable in my 1:12 twist 30-30 and 308, but will be fine in the 1:8 twist. They should be okay in the 1:12s at reduced supersonic loads (eg 1400fps). I think only the 190gr version is currently available for reloading.
I'd like to try the 175gr in my 30-30 if they offer them for reloaders.
Watching with interest. Do you have load data yet?.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigar
Yeah, I'm asking because I still have a fascination with subsonic centrefire, problem being that I don't reload. A lot more lead flying through the air with 450 Bushmaster
or 45-70 Government than 300 Blackout. What would the recoil and noise be like with these rounds? Also, finding a rifle with a fast enough twist might be an issue.
Not with the Sub-X projectiles yet, but have developed loads with shooternz's 151gr hp cast bullets and Trailboss. Subsonic for the 30-30 (16 inch barrel) and slow twist 308 (24 inch) was 7.5 grains of Trailboss, 8 grains for the fast twist 308 (16.5 inch barrel). I expect it will be similar for the 190gr Sub-X, maybe a touch more powder if it's a harder projectileQuote:
Originally Posted by Pengy
I got two boxes on 220 grn I think they are gold plated,only loaded 5 rounds for the 300 whisper, still in the loading block:oh noes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigar
Sorry Nosler
the 300blk stuff is great
It's pricey at $50 a box so I also have a lead cast load I use as well
I can't wait to try the 450bm stuff when it arrives and have a couple of boxes ordered
Where did you get the pills from @Cigar?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigar
I bought a box of Hdy 190s to load for my Rem 700 .308, listed as 1:10. They are same length as the 220gn cast lead pointed boat-tail slugs I've been using lately with excellent accuracy.
8gr Trail Boss is subsonic with 200s in my rifle so tried that with the Hornadys.
Group went 84mm vertical string at 50M, seemed to be a black smudge on one side of each bullet hole in white paper. Stability issue?
We're soon to try them in a T3 but may be worse in their 1:11 twist.
I use 8.5 gr of trailboss to push 151gr cast hollowpoints in my 308 which i believe are quite slippery and easy to push
the subx 190 will probably take more powder than you are giving it, at a guess id say one grain more possibly even more than that to get the speed near 1000fps
id personally start at 11.5 and work my way down till you were just under the sound barrier
subs can be super frustrating
one thing i found recently with 300blk is crimping increased the accuracy majorly
Why frustrating @Bill999?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill999
You are absolutely right about the crimp die, evens up the pressure and makes a massive difference to accuracy. After I started crimping mine I could shoot rabbits happily to ~100m with my .308, and I switched from chest shooting goats to head or neck shooting them, usually in the 50-80m range.
The one thing that is vital with any subs project is to do a thorough drop test at various ranges and tabulate it, and stick it on your rifle stock. And use a rangefinder to be precise. They’re dropping like a rock much past 60-70m.
Gunworks @burtonator though they were sold out last time I looked.Quote:
Originally Posted by burtonator
-usually im trying to stabilise bullets in too slow IE a standard 1-11 tikka t3 barrelQuote:
Originally Posted by Flyblown
-I got a lot of sideways bullets early on most were too heavy to stabilise
-I also dont have a chrony
-first round pop is a prick
-in my early loads if it was too warm it would break the sound barrier
-flat projectiles often dont feed well and hang up on the flat back of the barrel that the chamber is reamed into
-if the shots an inch or more from where you want it you will be dealing with a running animal
-a lot of people dont want to share their loading data so finding a start point is really difficult and often guess work, sometimes you can get a bullet stuck (like i did in my 450BM) which is really frustrating
I read your write up about your rem700 and it gave me a lot of info during the change over from 308 to 300blk im using 8.5gr 2205 with roberts 151gr cast hollowpoints (which i think I got from your write up) and it went sub straight off the bat, 8-9inch group at 30m, did a bit more reading then crimped that exact same load and it went into half an inch at 30m
first time iv crimped anything in all my hand loading, I always thought it was a waste of time outside a tube mag
For those that are interested, all Sub-x calibre ammo should be available from Hornady stockists according to the importer.
I am haveing a play with the 190 hornady subs today.
Rifle is a 16 inch barreled Rem mod 7 (1 in 10 twist I believe).
Have come down to 8 gn of Trailboss and still stable at 50 yards. I dont have a chrony, and my ears are crap, but guessing they are pretty darn close to subsonic or just below.
Going to try with the suppressor on now
I have just had a play with the 190 sub-X.
I loaded up 6 rounds from 7gns to 12gns of Trail Boss at 1gn intervals. They didn't go supersonic until 12gns which has surprised me (1gn more than the 200gn Lapuas I was using previously). I am going to load up another batch between 10gns and 11gns tonight and see how they go.
Rifle is a 16" T3.
First blood to the Sub-X. Admittedly, not much of a challenge and sadly not a deer, but it fell down stone dead with a chest shot.
https://i.ibb.co/8rcWYmw/Hunting-Wallaby1.jpg
Feel free to ignore my last post :(
Closer inspection showed that although the entry holes were pretty round, the projectiles tumbled on exiting 18mm mdf and left a nice elongated hole in the wood pallet 40cm behind the target. Recovered one very un expanded pill.
Back to the drawing board and off to Bay audiology asap ;)
What's the load and have you chronographed it?Quote:
Originally Posted by MB
300BLK factory round and I can tell you that they are subsonic, nothing more I'm afraid.
Ok. Thanks. I would think with the variation in rifles they are going through they would have to be loaded fairly "soft" to make sure they remain subsonic in everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by MB
@MB nicely done, do you have Skippies on the mainland up there or were you on a Island ?
Looks like Dama ?
CNI.
I had another play around with the Sub-x today.
After establishing supersonic was between 11.5 gns and 12gns I loaded up 10, 10.5 and 11gns and shot 3 shot groups at 25ish meters.
Attachment 147995
I think I will go with the 11gn load and the next step is to validate drop out to around 100 yards.
First victim falls to the 190gn Sub-X
I went down to the range today with a heap of 11gn (Trail Boss) loads and began shooting and dialing at a variety of distances. To my surprise it turned out to be much simpler than I had though it was going to be getting a practical load sorted.
I shot at 12.5, 25, 50, 60, 75 and 100 yards measure with my flash new Leica range finder (cheers @Sarvo). To cut a long story short, between 12.5 and 60 yards I had a 1/2" PBR with 6MOA dialed up. 75 yards required 9MOA and 100 yards 12MOA more than my standard hunting load. Too easy. I think even I can remember those figures in the field.
After the sight in I went for a quick wander (with the 2 rounds I had left) and spotted a rabbit that I ranged at 40 yards. With 6MOA already dialed I took a steady rest on a handy Manuka and drilled it exactly where I had aimed. Don't you just love it when things go to plan.
Attachment 148392
They're not exactly devastating are they? How do you think they will fare on larger animals?
Cheers @ShearerQuote:
Originally Posted by Shearer
You live in a magnificent place in our "Gods Own"
I do also -but I have not such g8 access to hunting grounds etc
Wish I did
Hard to say. I think they will kill well if you are patient with your shot placement. Like any sub you really want to immobilize the animal. They have plenty of weight so through both shoulders or anywhere in the CNS is all good. I hate trying to track hit animals so if they can't move it makes things a lot easier. Hopefully I will have a crack at something a bit bigger soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by MB
they work fine on pigsQuote:
Originally Posted by MB
just treat it like a subsonic 22 and you will be thrilled with the performance
Fair comments. As I've mentioned before, it's just for short range goat hunting, so should be up to the task.
You are right at subsonic velocity all bullets have much the same trajectory no matter how high their BC so pick a bullet that has the best shape to deliverQuote:
Originally Posted by Bill999
the energy to the target, Longer range than 100-150 metres the energy is way down and may only wound the animal.
Some of the Lehigh machined expanders or similar like the discrete ballistics 188 selious rounds increase the lethality a bit, but really I hate tracking animals so want instant humane shots that anchor the pigs(brain or CNS) Sub-x is great and convenient but no more effective than Roberts 151gr, Iv chest shot a large angry running pig in which I suspect I got a hilar area hit as it crumpled mid step and was completely immobilised, far more effective than I thought cast lead projectiles could be at such a low impact speed.
I try sticking to if you were to stab it where you are aiming with a knitting needle would it instantly die.
With bullets expanding and causing a larger wound channel it gives you a little lee way for the wobbles and the animal moving.
I feel terrible when things run off injured and that's very possible using subs and shooting things in the normal effective spots, used carefully Tho it's amazing what they can do
I'm not sure what subsonic jacketed bullets bring to the party that a cast lead bullet doesn't, except cost.
I guess some folks don't like greasy bullets but I believe they can be powder coated.
@Shearer what twist rate is the rifle?
these projectiles are roberts 151 grain and a 150 flat nose 3030 . Both subs out of a 308. Cast bullet was stuck under skin of a hind on a lung shot and the other was stopped against the skin on a neck shot . Both were on hinds. I have used the winchester factory subs in 308 and found the projectile very fragile and wont use them any more.151 lead subs were the best. Most go right through. Have just loaded some 190 hornady sub projectiles and the most accurate load was 12,5 grains trailboss. 3 shots touching at 50 metres out of a begara takedown. Dropped 100 mm at 100 metres. Not subsonic but not too noisy, i went for the most accurate load. At sub velocities it shot abouut 35mm groups.
Attachment 176987
Standard T3 308. 1:11 from memory. 16".Quote:
Originally Posted by PerazziSC3
