Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Alpine DPT


User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 31
Like Tree23Likes

Thread: Old Single shot rifle

  1. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Central Otago
    Posts
    2,259
    It is a standard .303 Martini-Enfield rifle and the 98 on the top of the body is the year of the Government purchase order (not necessarily the year of delivery). Not all M-E's were conversions as by the late 1890's the supply of donor Martini-Henrys was drying up and new manufacture of M-E's was undertaken. There are two types of breech blocks, the first being converted from the M-H with a dovetailed plate inserted to fit the smaller diameter firing pin (needed because of the much higher pressure of the .303 cartridge), and the second being the newly manufactured .303 type. I had a carbine in my collection (part of the 1898 order) that was newly manufactured in 1902. The photo of the right side of the action will show the date of the donor rifle. The M-E rifles and carbines were relegated to cadet training well before WW1 and were not completely phased out until the 1960's. I clearly remember a delivery of extra rifles from King Edward barracks in Ch-Ch to Cashmere High School in 1963 that consisted entirely of M-E carbines and NZ Pattern L-E carbines. They were only needed for the one day so we had enough rifles for a full battalion parade, as the school armoury only had about 200 SMLE's.

  2. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Okawa Hawkes Bay
    Posts
    3,039
    Quote Originally Posted by gundoc View Post
    It is a standard .303 Martini-Enfield rifle and the 98 on the top of the body is the year of the Government purchase order (not necessarily the year of delivery). Not all M-E's were conversions as by the late 1890's the supply of donor Martini-Henrys was drying up and new manufacture of M-E's was undertaken. There are two types of breech blocks, the first being converted from the M-H with a dovetailed plate inserted to fit the smaller diameter firing pin (needed because of the much higher pressure of the .303 cartridge), and the second being the newly manufactured .303 type. I had a carbine in my collection (part of the 1898 order) that was newly manufactured in 1902. The photo of the right side of the action will show the date of the donor rifle. The M-E rifles and carbines were relegated to cadet training well before WW1 and were not completely phased out until the 1960's. I clearly remember a delivery of extra rifles from King Edward barracks in Ch-Ch to Cashmere High School in 1963 that consisted entirely of M-E carbines and NZ Pattern L-E carbines. They were only needed for the one day so we had enough rifles for a full battalion parade, as the school armoury only had about 200 SMLE's.
    Thanks @gundoc,
    That explains everything. Except why NZ was still buying single shots in the late 1890's. Penny pinching during a depression perhaps.
    Regards Grandpamac.

  3. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Christchuch New Zealand
    Posts
    6,068
    Quote Originally Posted by gundoc View Post
    It is a standard .303 Martini-Enfield rifle and the 98 on the top of the body is the year of the Government purchase order (not necessarily the year of delivery). Not all M-E's were conversions as by the late 1890's the supply of donor Martini-Henrys was drying up and new manufacture of M-E's was undertaken. There are two types of breech blocks, the first being converted from the M-H with a dovetailed plate inserted to fit the smaller diameter firing pin (needed because of the much higher pressure of the .303 cartridge), and the second being the newly manufactured .303 type. I had a carbine in my collection (part of the 1898 order) that was newly manufactured in 1902. The photo of the right side of the action will show the date of the donor rifle. The M-E rifles and carbines were relegated to cadet training well before WW1 and were not completely phased out until the 1960's. I clearly remember a delivery of extra rifles from King Edward barracks in Ch-Ch to Cashmere High School in 1963 that consisted entirely of M-E carbines and NZ Pattern L-E carbines. They were only needed for the one day so we had enough rifles for a full battalion parade, as the school armoury only had about 200 SMLE's.
    Now theres a thought..........Imagine a school today being allowed to even think about having a parade with anything that resembles a rifle......Let alone have to borrow more for it because they only had 200 on hand.....Love it...
    john m, Micky Duck, XR500 and 1 others like this.
    Intelligence has its limits, but it appears that Stupidity knows no bounds......

  4. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Tauranga
    Posts
    5,104
    Quote Originally Posted by grandpamac View Post
    Thanks @gundoc,
    That explains everything. Except why NZ was still buying single shots in the late 1890's. Penny pinching during a depression perhaps.
    Regards Grandpamac.
    It was what they could get - Mummy country was often not the most forthcoming with arms, hence the conversions and 'NZ' pattern contract stuff we got from the non-military manufacturer's.

  5. #20
    Member Wingman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Waikato
    Posts
    1,937
    Nice... I like this game.. Whats mine?

    Name:  20230119_200940.jpg
Views: 537
Size:  3.35 MB

    Name:  20230119_194922.jpg
Views: 532
Size:  3.70 MB

    Name:  20230119_194810.jpg
Views: 551
Size:  2.82 MB

    Name:  20230119_194956.jpg
Views: 540
Size:  3.32 MB

    Name:  20230119_195004.jpg
Views: 531
Size:  2.56 MB

    Name:  20230119_195110.jpg
Views: 527
Size:  2.47 MB

    Name:  20230119_195136.jpg
Views: 502
Size:  3.43 MB
    Micky Duck likes this.

  6. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Central Otago
    Posts
    2,259
    HRB Co stands for Henry Rifle Barrel Company that did the conversion to .303 in 1898. AC II stands for Artillery Carbine Mark II. The fore-end is incorrect but is similar to the first pattern .303 carbines but it is too short between the band and the nose cap. I suspect that the barrel has been shortened, the correct carbine front sight refitted, and the fore-end shortened to be the correct length for the bayonet. The separate nose cap is from a .577/.450 Martini-Henry carbine. there could be other discrepancies that would be more obvious from a physical examination.
    Micky Duck likes this.

  7. #22
    Member Wingman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Waikato
    Posts
    1,937
    Quote Originally Posted by gundoc View Post
    HRB Co stands for Henry Rifle Barrel Company that did the conversion to .303 in 1898. AC II stands for Artillery Carbine Mark II. The fore-end is incorrect but is similar to the first pattern .303 carbines but it is too short between the band and the nose cap. I suspect that the barrel has been shortened, the correct carbine front sight refitted, and the fore-end shortened to be the correct length for the bayonet. The separate nose cap is from a .577/.450 Martini-Henry carbine. there could be other discrepancies that would be more obvious from a physical examination.

    Thank you for the HRB co info. What does the ICI on the other side stand for?
    The barrel hasnt been shortened, it is the factory artillary carbine length, the fore wood is from a rifle length ME that had the front cut off and shaped without the end cap. This is why the barrel band is further forward. A common mod done by local armorer's for the cadets/schools. I added the nose cap and have been hunting for the correct mkII fore wood that doesnt have a barrel band to replace it at some stage.

    It looked like this:

    Name:  20230120_070339.jpg
Views: 352
Size:  430.2 KB

    It should and will eventually look like the one at the bottom of this pic:
    Name:  Screenshot_20230118-201913_Google.jpg
Views: 351
Size:  607.8 KB
    Last edited by Wingman; 20-01-2023 at 07:05 AM.
    Micky Duck likes this.

  8. #23
    Member Marty Henry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Tararua
    Posts
    7,045
    IC1 interchangeable carbine 1 the idea was to make one that with a change in stock could be used by both arms needing a shorter rifle.

  9. #24
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Bay of plenty
    Posts
    745
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    How many complete carbines are around in NZ?
    Quite a few. I seem to come across them more than the longs

  10. #25
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    666
    Bloody great thread this
    Just saying

  11. #26
    Gone................. mikee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Nelson, New Zealand
    Posts
    9,808
    Found this

    Interesting
    Trust the dog.........................................ALWAYS Trust the dog!!

  12. #27
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2024
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    2
    Great thread.

    It would be interesting to know how many Martini Enfield's were ordered and delivered to NZ?

    Name:  Martini enfield.JPG
Views: 219
Size:  45.4 KB

    Name:  ME3.JPG
Views: 215
Size:  26.8 KB

    Name:  ME1.JPG
Views: 212
Size:  30.9 KB

    Name:  ME2.JPG
Views: 210
Size:  25.0 KB

    Name:  20240129_062734.jpg
Views: 220
Size:  557.7 KB

  13. #28
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    helensville nz
    Posts
    4,551
    Dad has an original unconverted one in 577-450 complete with bayonet
    I have a martini sporter in 450/500 BPE
    And a custom 45-70 on an me303 action as above
    Good rifles

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Single shot take down rifle
    By viper in forum Firearms, Optics and Accessories
    Replies: 79
    Last Post: 01-08-2022, 10:11 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Welcome to NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums! We see you're new here, or arn't logged in. Create an account, and Login for full access including our FREE BUY and SELL section Register NOW!!