Permit to Procure - Serialised components vs complete firearms.

Up until now, whenever I have a firearm cited to get a permit signed, I have stripped it down to just the serialised component plus whatever I can't get off without specialised tools. I would then take that to the AO and have it cited, for the purpose of being discrete.

Today I took my new NEA-25 to the Auckland Central station to have the firearm cited and my permit to procure signed. As per the usual I had removed all the components I could and had only the serialized components. I was immediately told by the AO that this was unacceptable and that I needed to present an entire firearm for citing in order to have my permit signed. I questioned this, asking what would happen if I had only bought a serialised lower with no other components? Her reply was that "You wouldn't have been given a permit for a gun unless it was for an entire gun." :ORLY: She then went on to say that lots of people with "AK-15s or whatever they are" are bringing in "just the little bit". She then, after conferencing with some colleagues behind closed doors, agreed to sign my permit.

Has anyone else run into this? Is this a new policy? I called Kevin on the shore to check and he had a rather non-committal answer that "they weren't technically wrong".

Sounds a bit odd. They might be worried about people bringing in the whole firearm, which has already been modified to E :wtfsmilie:

Took my S&W and Colt lowers only into Auckland Central earlier this year, they read the serial number and processed it no problems.

Maybe AO was just having a bad day. They're human, like shooters, and it happens.

I've always presented the entire firearm.

Had the same a year or so ago when putting a stripped a cat lower on to e. AO said they wanted to see a complete firearm. Went back with the assembled rifle. Still wouldn't accept it because I didn't bring the magazine.FFS! Third visit and finally the AO was happy.

I agree with the AO's stance. It's a bit like some rocking on up with borrowed wheels for a wof on their ute, passing the inspection, then swapping back to stuffed treads. Although the intention to be discrete is commendable, perhaps all parts could be taken in, so at inspection, full assembly is an option. There appears to be more and more 'internal' accountability these days I suggest.

I agree with the AO's stance. It's a bit like some rocking on up with borrowed wheels for a wof on their ute, passing the inspection, then swapping back to stuffed treads. Although the intention to be discrete is commendable, perhaps all parts could be taken in, so at inspection, full assembly is an option. There appears to be more and more 'internal' accountability these days I suggest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ingrid 51

I agree with the AO's stance. It's a bit like some rocking on up with borrowed wheels for a wof on their ute, passing the inspection, then swapping back to stuffed treads. Although the intention to be discrete is commendable, perhaps all parts could be taken in, so at inspection, full assembly is an option. There appears to be more and more 'internal' accountability these days I suggest.

---

It's the features of the lower that are regulated, nothing else (apart from the obvious barrel length).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ingrid 51

I agree with the AO's stance. It's a bit like some rocking on up with borrowed wheels for a wof on their ute, passing the inspection, then swapping back to stuffed treads. Although the intention to be discrete is commendable, perhaps all parts could be taken in, so at inspection, full assembly is an option. There appears to be more and more 'internal' accountability these days I suggest.

---

How does it stop you from changing anything in any case?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kscott

Sounds a bit odd. They might be worried about people bringing in the whole firearm, which has already been modified to E :wtfsmilie:

Took my S&W and Colt lowers only into Auckland Central earlier this year, they read the serial number and processed it no problems.

Maybe AO was just having a bad day. They're human, like shooters, and it happens.

---

Interestingly enough, I was required to convert my AR's to E-cat and show them in the config that they were going to be in as an E-cat. (As if I wasn't legally allowed to change their config at any point afterwards)
I told her that for starters I just want to use larger capacity magazines as I couldn't afford to upgrade stock and everything straight away, but that wasn't good enough.
I ended up borrowing a stock and buying another to please.

That's odd, it's having the firearm in its endorsed state before endorsement is approved. I was in the reverse boat, as I was upgrading them both the Colt and S&W to E, I had to present the firearms in their current legal A state, then get approval via the 67X. AO specifically spoke about it being in that order otherwise I'd be in trouble. We are supposed to present them for inspection after the application has gone through (this was earlier this year).

I went into central yesterday, same thing. Went home and got an upper and an a2 stock and a parts kit. Back to central station, rough assembly on a table in an interview room and a photo and she was happy. Quite classic as it was a 223 upper on a dedicated 9mm lower as I haven't got my barrel yet, she didn't notice at all. Said when I'd concerted it to its E configuration I HAD to email her a photo of it (fuck knows why).

A) it's a ridiculous requirement

B) they clearly have no fucken clue what they're looking at, so why have the requirement at all?

C) a photo? Why? Should I even bother?

D) who is driving this bullshit?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kscott

That's odd, it's having the firearm in its endorsed state before endorsement is approved. I was in the reverse boat, as I was upgrading them both the Colt and S&W to E, I had to present the firearms in their current legal A state, then get approval via the 67X. AO specifically spoke about it being in that order otherwise I'd be in trouble. We are supposed to present them for inspection after the application has gone through (this was earlier this year).

---

Yup, that's right, my AO was just like, oh don't be silly, you're not going to get into trouble for it.
What could I do?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tommy

I went into central yesterday, same thing. Went home and got an upper and an a2 stock and a parts kit. Back to central station, rough assembly on a table in an interview room and a photo and she was happy. Quite classic as it was a 223 upper on a dedicated 9mm lower as I haven't got my barrel yet, she didn't notice at all. Said when I'd concerted it to its E configuration I HAD to email her a photo of it (fuck knows why).

A) it's a ridiculous requirement

B) they clearly have no fucken clue what they're looking at, so why have the requirement at all?

C) a photo? Why? Should I even bother?

D) who is driving this bullshit?

---

Take a photo of it in a completely different e cat config. You have no requirement to keep it in that exact config for any period of time.
Even take a photo of a different gun :P

Wonder if I remove the floor plate on my swede, chuck a glock mag up it and send a photo of that in hahaha

Thats really fucked up Jexla. A dealer lost his license because one of his customers did something similar to what they asked you to do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beavis

Thats really fucked up Jexla. A dealer lost his license because one of his customers did something similar to what they asked you to do.

---

But how?? If it's not a requirement, how would the guy lose his ticket for something someone else did?

Edit: duh misunderstood. Thought you were referring to him suggesting a photo of a different rifle was sent in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beavis

Thats really fucked up Jexla. A dealer lost his license because one of his customers did something similar to what they asked you to do.

---

You sure it wasn't because the dealer sold the gun in a e-cat form to someone without a permit to procure and the someone then tried to get a permit?

Don't know. Story I was told was customer was going to convert it to E cat so he sold him a 30 round mag to go with it when he changed it over.

I'll have the floorplate thanks Tommy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ingrid 51

I agree with the AO's stance. It's a bit like some rocking on up with borrowed wheels for a wof on their ute, passing the inspection, then swapping back to stuffed treads. Although the intention to be discrete is commendable, perhaps all parts could be taken in, so at inspection, full assembly is an option. There appears to be more and more 'internal' accountability these days I suggest.

---

Right. So, what if i bought a rolling body of a car, and to change the registration into my name it they expected me to present a warrantable car for inspection?

The problem is that I have seen "guns" sold in the past that are nothing more than registered receivers. L1A1s that are on licence, but are just a rusted out receiver with a barrel mounted to them.

Furthermore, what does it matter if I change something on the gun? It's already registered as E, so technically I can change anything I want except the overall length.

I had the part that really mattered, the serialised component.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beavis

Don't know. Story I was told was customer was going to convert it to E cat so he sold him a 30 round mag to go with it when he changed it over.

---

So it sounds like he sold it in a E-cat configuration to someone without a permit to procure. I'm not surprised he lost his licence, if that's what happened.

No wonder the cops seem to be so hot on AR15s and similar guns.

And yet you have AO's insisting people bring in their rifles in an MSSA configuration before they'll change them over? I guess that's ok with you cuz it's the police.

Sounds like Angela. I've unfortunately had a couple runs in with her, and her unsupported interpretations and requests (see demands) for information that is not legally required.

After several requests for her to process an application, I filed a complaint. I received a prompt reply from her boss, apologising and accepting full responsibility for the delay (respect for that).

I would recommend that anyone encountering AOs demanding unnecessary information or attempting to impose illegal requirements, 'stick to your guns'.

Every time people acquiesce to their illegal actions, it encourages their behavior and means another will have to fight the same battle in your stead.

Be polite, but do not yield. Escalate it higher as required or submit a complaint. Let them know that you are unhappy with the service you are receiving. They have to respond and their performance is measured.

I know we all want a speedy resolution, and don't want any hassles. However, fighting the smaller battles now, will help not only yourself, but the community as a whole.

Today is the day to stand up for your community.

Yep, Angela.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Koshogi

Sounds like Angela. I've unfortunately had a couple runs in with her, and her unsupported interpretations and requests (see demands) for information that is not legally required.

After several requests for her to process an application, I filed a complaint. I received a prompt reply from her boss, apologising and accepting full responsibility for the delay (respect for that).

I would recommend that anyone encountering AOs demanding unnecessary information or attempting to impose illegal requirements, 'stick to your guns'.

Every time people acquiesce to their illegal actions, it encourages their behavior and means another will have to fight the same battle in your stead.

Be polite, but do not yield. Escalate it higher as required or submit a complaint. Let them know that you are unhappy with the service you are receiving. They have to respond and their performance is measured.

I know we all want a speedy resolution, and don't want any hassles. However, fighting the smaller battles now, will help not only yourself, but the community as a whole.

Today is the day to stand up for your community.

---

This

I have found that if you are firm,polite,and of course correct that you get what you need from police. The staff member that either has no clue or is putting there own spin on things shouldn't be given in to-doing so just makes it harder on the next person they deal with as you reinforce the staff members position

3d printing will change everything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daggers_187

Up until now, whenever I have a firearm cited to get a permit signed, I have stripped it down to just the serialised component plus whatever I can't get off without specialised tools. I would then take that to the AO and have it cited, for the purpose of being discrete.

Today I took my new NEA-25 to the Auckland Central station to have the firearm cited and my permit to procure signed. As per the usual I had removed all the components I could and had only the serialized components. I was immediately told by the AO that this was unacceptable and that I needed to present an entire firearm for citing in order to have my permit signed. I questioned this, asking what would happen if I had only bought a serialised lower with no other components? Her reply was that "You wouldn't have been given a permit for a gun unless it was for an entire gun." :ORLY: She then went on to say that lots of people with "AK-15s or whatever they are" are bringing in "just the little bit". She then, after conferencing with some colleagues behind closed doors, agreed to sign my permit.

Has anyone else run into this? Is this a new policy? I called Kevin on the shore to check and he had a rather non-committal answer that "they weren't technically wrong".

---

The last person to walk down the road with a gun bag had the aos called on him. What a stupid cunt AO. Id lay a complaint.

AO here in Welly said when I took an AR10 in that I only needed to bring the lower for inspection if I wanted - which is true and correct


Forums like this are great cos we seem to be more organised than our national network of AOs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beavis

And yet you have AO's insisting people bring in their rifles in an MSSA configuration before they'll change them over? I guess that's ok with you cuz it's the police.

---

pretty sure its an unlawful request.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Danger Mouse

The last person to walk down the road with a gun bag had the aos called on him. What a stupid cunt AO. Id lay a complaint.

---

Yep, first time I walked in with the receiver in a brown envelope. Next visit I had to find a park a block away and walk up Hobson st with a rifle bag. Geniuses eh?

Didn't have to bring along a mag like the other fellah, but what's next? Have to bring it loaded?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Koshogi

Sounds like Angela. I've unfortunately had a couple runs in with her, and her unsupported interpretations and requests (see demands) for information that is not legally required.

After several requests for her to process an application, I filed a complaint. I received a prompt reply from her boss, apologising and accepting full responsibility for the delay (respect for that).

I would recommend that anyone encountering AOs demanding unnecessary information or attempting to impose illegal requirements, 'stick to your guns'.

Every time people acquiesce to their illegal actions, it encourages their behavior and means another will have to fight the same battle in your stead.

Be polite, but do not yield. Escalate it higher as required or submit a complaint. Let them know that you are unhappy with the service you are receiving. They have to respond and their performance is measured.

I know we all want a speedy resolution, and don't want any hassles. However, fighting the smaller battles now, will help not only yourself, but the community as a whole.

Today is the day to stand up for your community.

---

How do I file a complaint?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daggers_187

How do I file a complaint?

---

You can lodge a NZ Police 'Expression of Dissatisfaction " here. This was my first course of action, and achieved a speedy resolution.
https://forms.police.govt.nz/forms/e...atisfaction/44

A formal complaint can be lodged through IPCA.
http://www.ipca.govt.nz/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Koshogi

You can lodge a NZ Police 'Expression of Dissatisfaction " here. This was my first course of action, and achieved a speedy resolution.
https://forms.police.govt.nz/forms/e...atisfaction/44

A formal complaint can be lodged through IPCA.
IPCA - Independent Police Conduct Authority of New Zealand

---

Thanks mate. Appreciated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beavis

Thats really fucked up Jexla. A dealer lost his license because one of his customers did something similar to what they asked you to do.

---

Yeah I know, fuck all I could do about it though.

Hi Daggers-this is not about the firearm, but thought you should know, "discrete" means "separate", as opposed to "discreet", meaning "not attracting attention". Cheers.
PS: I was a proof reader in another life!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ranger 888

Hi Daggers-this is not about the firearm, but thought you should know, "discrete" means "separate", as opposed to "discreet", meaning "not attracting attention". Cheers.
PS: I was a proof reader in another life!

---

I hope you never read my posts, you would be setting yourself up for a lot of work correcting the mistakes. Especially as a lot of them are dictated so wrong word that sound similar are common

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ranger 888

Hi Daggers-this is not about the firearm, but thought you should know, "discrete" means "separate", as opposed to "discreet", meaning "not attracting attention". Cheers.
PS: I was a proof reader in another life!

---

Thanks man. Appreciated. :thumbsup: