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Sorry if this is a super dumb question but I hunt the Kaimais and all deer I encounter are within the 50m range. (Actually more often than not it's more like 10m).
Wouldn't a red dot scope be better suited to this range than my 3-9? Why haven't I ever seen one on a bolt action before?
Depends how good your eyes are.
Especially at dusk and dawn or trying to see through undergrowth.
I have a 2-7x32 scope on a hunting rifle which is a better option in my view.
The 1-4 or 1-6x24 scopes just dont cut it in low light due to the small objective.
I used one for ages. Worked a treat but found I needed a little more magnification for various reasons so went to a 2-7
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That wasnt a red dot, just the reflection of your bloodshot eye in the ocular lenseQuote:
Originally Posted by R93
Most likely. Lucky I have a cork on my fork.😆Quote:
Originally Posted by sneeze
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Try this I'm getting one when I go back to the states:thumbsup: recon it will be the business.
http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...t-black-26458/
Maybe take it off the fork and put it back in the scotch bottle?Quote:
Originally Posted by R93
Been home 2 days and haven't even had a dram yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by sneeze
Heading south on Wed so will fit a bottle in somehow😆
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Been home 2 days and onto 2ND bottle....... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by R93
Now heading north.....
Red dot (eotech 512) on my 9mm ar15, bloody great thing for out to 50m.
If you only shoot that close red dot would be fine, but a true 1-6/1-6/1-8/1-10(depending on budget) will do the job better imho
That does look interesting, not too pricey, I might give it a go. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideshow
Red dots have their place. They have pro's and con's. In most cases one or two of the con's far outweigh the pro's in most hunters requirements.
The have very fast target acquisition, and you use them both eyes open like a shotgun. But sometimes the colour dot selected does not show up when you need it to. Accuracy can also be a big issue. In the same way a BIG Thick cross hair is easy to see but covers half the target when trying to chase accuracy. You hear about inch or 2 inch groups, but when the dot is 4 inches at 100 it is very difficult to get better than "behind the dot". This is part of the reason the become close up range scopes, anything over 100m is too far to ensure accuracy otherwise if the dot is fine enough for accuracy it is too small to see fast or clearly.
I use a 1.5-6x36 and there are quite a few shotgun scopes for slugs available like Nikkoo Simmons and Leupold etc that would be good for the same situation and still be suitable for longer shots where accuracy is more critical. I may even have a couple of Nikko here in stock.
Most of the red dots we sold went onto pump action shotguns for pigs. Up close and personal type situations or rifles set up for sub sonic where the max range was about 100m.
Simmons - ProHunter 1.5-5x32
Bushnell - 1.75-4x 32mm 1.75-4x32
I think a 1-4 / 1- something scope would do you better
Wouldn't be quite as fast to pick up, but something with an illuminated dot will still be a lot faster than your 3-9, but will allow you some zoom should you need it.
A VX6 1-6 would be great, just depends in what price bracket you are looking in.
Could also get a offset mount and mount a small reflex sight either above your scope or off to one side. Have never used this set up, but in theory will give you best of both worlds. And be super Tactical.
Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6, or Primary Arms 1-8.
What is the eye relief like with these? I resume you still need to have a good cheek weld and repeatability?
Year no worries Ricochet I'm going to pick one of these up as I said in the states. Need one for driven boar in France as well as Roe in the UK. I also hunt some very tight stuff. I think for the Kaimais this would be ideal. Let me know how you get on cheers Sideshow :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricochet
I'd try to mount it as low/close to the barrel as possible so you can get that running shot in if need be. But that's just me.Quote:
Originally Posted by 223nut
There is no Parallax error using these so if you can see the dot that’s where the shot will hit.Quote:
Originally Posted by 223nut
The Holosun is significantly smaller and lighter than a Vortex strike eagle or any other low magnification variable scope for example.
If you are hunting in the thick stuff something like the Holosun would be better in my opinion.
The other option is one of the fixed power red dots, something around 3 power.
Red dot scopes are fantastic gor close shrug or snap shots. They are easily field accurate out to 300m, anyone who says otherwise doesn't know how to shoot with one.
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Been thinking g of putting one on the 10/22, only use it gets it possums up the tree so 20m range, often have them on the move and wait for them to stop currently with the scope.
I am not going to dispute that they have their place and their uses. And I know how to use one and had one for quite some time. And I agree whole heartedly on your comment "Red dot scopes are fantastic gor close shrug or snap shots."Quote:
Originally Posted by Koshogi
But if the dot is big enough to see for those "close shrug or snap shots."then it is too big for any accuracy further out. If it is small enough to be accurate at ranges over 150m, it is so small that you cannot see it in a hurry. Those snap shots in the bush require a bight dot to be 4 to 6 moa in size in order to be a 2" to 3" circle (or there abouts) at 50 metres. Thats a 6 inch bread and butter plate at 100m. At 300m that dot is 18 inches across and this is likely to mean your group will be similar. That is not good enough for a long shot. You can get a nice bright 1moa dot scope, that has a nice tight dot so at longer range you get a smaller group, problem is when you look at a pig at 50 metres you are now looking through your scope for a dot on the animal the size of a 10c copper coin. Try seeing that in a hurry.....This is not just a dot problem. Look at cross hairs too. A big thick bold cross hair is easy to see fast, but obscures a lot more of a target. Try shooting a 2 inch cricle at 100m when the cross hair is is wider than that.... a fine thin precise cross hair can see a 1 inch circle at 100m but is hard to pick up in a hurry.
It is all a balance / compromise. If you want fast acquisition in thick bush then a bright dot or a thick bold cross hair is ideal with the dot having the advantage, but if you want accuracy at 300m at small targets then the fine cross hair will out perform them. Anything in between is a balance between the two.
If you are likely to be using it in close range and bush then a dot may well be ideal. If you dont mind being a little slower on acquisition then the cross hair of a low powered scope like a 1x-4x up to a max of 6x will still be able to do better at those longer ranges when that opportunity comes up. This is partly why the 3-9x40 has been such a popular size. 3x is low enough for a decent field of view and fast (ish) acquisition and 9x is fine for 400m long shots on decent sized targets like deer. This makes it a good balance for most hunting situations. thicker the scrub, lower the magnification, the more open and clear it gets the bigger the scope 4-12x or 4-16 even. Horses for courses.
Leupold firedot crosses over to having your cake and eating it to some extent, I use 3-9 x 40. Sometimes in the bush wish had a 1-2 low end but can still do precision out to 250m which need for shot placement on a 223 AR . I keep looking at changing out of being a consumer but only scope I really like to replace with would be a compact illuminated 2.5 x 10 nightforce at a nice price
I have one of these with the "K dot" recticle
MeoStar R1 1-4x22 RD - True 1x magnification for instinctive, split-second, aiming precision.
Its phucking magic! The glass is fantastic and you can turn the illum off and have a black recticle.It takes a bit of getting used to bit its fast for close up stuff and wound up it does well at longer range.
I'm another user,
I limit myself to 150 with it then put the pm2 on for anything else
Do it, ive swapped my holosun 403 solar between most of my guns and can't fault it for hunting to 100m as long as the rifles up to the task. Shit ive even used it on my ar15 for ipsc matches out to 300m on 300mm steel plate and never needed 2nd shots, which is minute of deer to me. It now lives on ny 9mm ar which is a match made in heaven.
As above the 1-4 and 1-6s are mostly too dark in twilight and especially the vortex wau too heavy, too busy reticle for hunting and quite short eyebox.
Maybe it all comes down to how good your eyes are
Why does the size of the dot equate the size of your group?Quote:
Originally Posted by timattalon
How big is a iron front site post at 100m? At 300m?
An AR front site post for example is 11MOA, does that mean my groups will be 11 inches at 100m? Or 33 inches at 300m? No, because I'm not obscuring the target with the entire post. I'm using the tip of the post, the same can be/is done with a dot.
If accuracy is the priority then clearly the preferred option is a magnified optic. To say that a red dot isn't accurate past 100m though, is .....well inaccurate. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ff2bb5f903.jpg
Also to remember with the likes of Eotech has a 65Moa ring for close stuff, centre is 1 Moa for out further, Aimpoints depending on what size dot you choose say 2 MOA you can full up and down with power for light or to increase for size. These two brands were and still really are the benchmark for many years but others seem to be catching up. Holosuns sound ok and the look remarkably similar to one of Sig Sauers releases at half the price. There's some good Korean ones recently released supposed to be up close to Aimpoint quality.
the advantage red dots have with close range and when shooting long range is that you shoot with both eyes open once you get used to it the dot I use trijicon mro's is only 2mm and because you can adjust the brightness means you can shoot dark bush to bright sunlight using both eyes means it dosnt obscure the target way faster than a scope dont know about a bolt action tho for follow up shots yesterday pest control came across a mob of 29 goats got 26 30 metres to 200 metres ar 15 with trijicon mro
Again I am not disagreeing with you.I am simply saying that if you are after accuracy at those longer shots then, as you say, a magnified optic is better. Its all about a balance between what is best at both. Going right back to the original post I have quoted below. that a red dot would be much more suited at those ranges. The size of the dot matters to an extent because if it as large as you suggest, then while you can hit the centre of the dot, if it obscures the target that much you cannot be sure where the target is behind the dot. The one I had was great for those quick close shots, but at 200m it would obscure almost the whole goat and not being about to see behind the dot meant I could not know if it moved or whether I was still aiming at a vital organ or not. I could not see the target clear enough to guarantee a clean shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koshogi
The point I was trying to make is not so much "To say that a red dot isn't accurate past 100m though, is .....well inaccurate." but rather more like To say that a red dot isn't as accurate as a scope past 100m . You find someone who can shoot an accurate group with a Red dot at a range past 100m, and then see what happens if they use a magnified optic at the same range......And as most rifles are set up for those 100m + distances they tend to use magnified optics as a default.
At those ranges, yes, most certainly a red dot would be great. The reason you probably have not seen one on a bolt action is that most would be set up for longer ranges than you are encountering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricochet
Leupold have the option of a 6moa delta (🔼) instead of a dot, zero at a hundred with the point for accuracy, short range put the delta on the deer and squeeze.
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A VX6 2-12 with firedot is what you are after then.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackson21
An awesome scope.
I don't know about anyone else, but I shoot everything with both eyes openQuote:
Originally Posted by carlhurley
Depends how far I've got the scope wound up.... And how long I have to set things upQuote:
Originally Posted by Pengy
Yes, would tick the boxes for general all round NZ hunting scope, throw a cds on top. Most bases covered, and also not carrying a brick on top of the rifle
Yes, that would tick the boxes as a good allrounder, plus cds option and not be carting around a brick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beetroot
If shots are that close in the bush open sights also a good option to really compact a rifle.
Some good advice & views in this thread,
I run a VXR 1.25-4 on my bush stumpy & love this scope for close stuff, yes it has limitations but then this is only a 250 yard rifle ( & pitty it's not a true 1x power ) On my RX22 .22 semi I ran a 1x power with 2moa red dot & as I'm using subs this only has to work out'a 60-80 yards, it works great for what I'm using it for ( the thing to watch on cheap red dots is they aren't exactly crisp, more like a fuzzy dot lol )
But if it's a super thick center reticle you want try a Bushnell Firefly ( bugger me it was as thick as ya finger lol )