Thread: Redundant Calibres

Mmm 7mm rem mag and 300 win mag.
2 calibers that are in the top 10 if not the 5 most popular cartridges in the US.
Maybe not here as such but they arent going anywhere over there and that means here eventually

Originally Posted by Ranger 888

Problem is today there is too much choice...back in the 1990s the USA churned out 24 new calibres in a year. By contrast the early New Zealand Govt. deer hunters made do with the .303 (open sights) for deer, goats, pigs and wapiti, and private hunters had WW2 surplus 8mm rifles available as well. Then the .222, .243, and .270 calibres crept in. A new generation of hunters now has the .300 RUM, 7mm RUM, .300 WSM, .325 WSM, .270 WSM, 7mm SAUM, 7mm WSM, .223 WSSM, .243 WSSM, .25 WSSM, .338 RUM, .375 RUM, .204 Ruger, .22 Grendel, .22 TCM, 6mm TCU, .28 Nosler, 6.5 PRC, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 Grendel, 7mm LRM, .300 Blackout, .338 Edge, and the .450 Bushmaster. Really? Are these all necessary??

Heyyyyyyy you forgot 25-06


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Remember… with .308 you can always sabot down.


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Originally Posted by muzza

Virtually all of those new calibers are products of the marketing division of gun companies. They have been invented to sell more firearms because there is a large percentage of the gun owning population who have to have the latest rifle each year.

None of those calibers do anything better than the humble 303 or the 222 or the 308. There are no degrees of dead - your target either is or it isnt

It's not cartridges that kill, it's bullets.

Clear to see that bullets have come a long way since the 1950's/60's.

Trouble with some old cartridges is they were designed based around a heavy shoulder/body taper, slow twist rates, belted case head, long neck etc.

All of these produce problems when you try and use the better bullets, loaded rounds too long to fit in a magazine, compressed powder charges, need to rebarrel or cut chamber with a longer throat etc.

New cartridges are meant to be turn-key accurate. Just buy a box of loaded rounds and factory rifle from the shop, bolt everything together and you are good to 500m and beyond on targets.

Another matter on game though as shot placement is everything and ringing steel can give false confidence, especially if a bullet's terminal performance is not a known factor (hardness and terminal speed dictates aiming point, or whether to get closer/let it go).

the EBRGs twin....6mm Remington I think it is....has forever played catch up to the .243w and failed to do so.... twistrates too slow I believe was biggest issue.
happy to be corrected.

'Caberslash' has it right - it's the bullet that does the damage and that's the way it's always been.

The round lead ball was used from the 1400's to kill men on the battlefield, then to kill game. Range on a RB was limited and it could be slow to load, so the elongated bullet superceded it - the minie. The minie was faster loading and because of it's shape and extra weight could shoot further .............. and that's how it went really - just a progression of bullet styles and materials that kill no better than that lead ball ftrom the 1400's.

Originally Posted by Burb122

Remember… with .308 you can always sabot down.


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Sabot ammunition is now prohibited and possession carries a 2 year jail sentence. Stupid, I know, but that is the crazy world we are currently living in.

Originally Posted by JustAnotherSpearo

I'm on the waiting to be called list with H&F and gun city for some but good to know! Thank you

If you get stuck without ammo, let me know. Happy to pass on the factory ammo for what it cost me.

I’m inspired. Got the 6.5x55 in the Ute and I’m off for the night. 10 rounds of 140 grn Gold Dot should do some damage if I do my bit.
Realistically I should only need one or two. Really, I’m more redundant than the old Swede is.

As long as you can make ammunition for a gun it will never be absolete or reduntent
All the calibres I have I can cast lead bullet for the limiting factor is brass cases.

Originally Posted by GDMP

Including hunting cartridges, such as the old Remington 'accelerator' soft point ammo?.

That's a bit of a grey area as far as I can tell, but I wouldn't want to be the test case. The description of a sabot round in the actual law said something along the lines of "designed for increased penetration" and I can't see how a soft point .224 projectile fired from a 30 cal meets that description. But a judge may see it differently to me!

The whole rationale behind the 'Prohibited Ammunition' law seems to be their fear of someone shooting at the Police with ammo that will penetrate vests. The wording of the legislation about saboted ammo is a bit vague and seems to be able to cover all saboted rifle & pistol ammo. I suspect their fear there is the lack of evidential striations on recovered projectiles which would prevent forensic ballistic evidence being usable in a prosecution. All of the above tends to indicate they may be afraid of the public!

someone had read "point of impact" and now fears a .338 LM being saboted with a .308 projectile and used to snipe at long range......is the only rational I can see behind sabot law change.....any twit can pick up used projectiles and load into a .12ga case...not wouldnt some (for grins n giggles ONLY) 9mm fmj picked up of certain ranges...that ended up in side of house etc be hilarious after ballistics teams analize them... I CAN SEE the court notes now... judje asks"have you identified the gun that fired them?"
police procecuter answers "yes we have your honour"
"well spit it out then"
PP very red in face replies "well your honour there are four different weapons and all are in police armoury"

CASE DISMISSED....
heck a really mischievious fella could pop them through windows with a forked stick and bit of nicker elastic or slice off a car tyre....

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

the EBRGs twin....6mm Remington I think it is....has forever played catch up to the .243w and failed to do so.... twistrates too slow I believe was biggest issue.
happy to be corrected.

Greetings @Micky Duck and All,
Warren Page designed 6mm wildcats that he tried to interest both Remington and Winchester in introducing. He succeeded rather too well. Winchester had in mind a hunting cartridge that could be used for varmints and Remington a varmint cartridge that could be used for hunting. In line with the thinking at the time the .243 Win got a 10" twist and the .244 Rem a 12" which would not stabilise the 100 grain projectile. Remington reacted by increasing the twist to 9" and later renaming the cartridge the 6mm Remington but the horse had already bolted. It appears that Remington may have given their Model 700 rifles in .243 a 9" twist as well at least for a time. In many ways the 6mm is a better cartridge than the .243 but it is pretty much dead now.
Regards Grandpamac.

A bullet with a 'sabot' can be made from any material including really, really hard stuff. Being lighter it could attain higher velocity and penetrate ................. maybe even a brick wall or a tank - like what happened in WW2.

I imagine those who feel they may be shot at wouldn't be too chuffed to know any protagonist may be armed with something like that ..............
"What's he got Dick ?"
"Fucked if I know, but that bullet went through two brick walls and put a hole in the toaster."