How do you guys achieve it? I find it a very frustrating process. Even used a proper kit for it (wheeler) and it was more on the piss than when I did it by using my door frame as a reference.
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How do you guys achieve it? I find it a very frustrating process. Even used a proper kit for it (wheeler) and it was more on the piss than when I did it by using my door frame as a reference.
Screwing, unscrewing, screwing. Set the reticle about 11:30-11:45 before you start tightening the screws.
To have a little cant in the reticle/rifle relation doesn't matter for shooting.
Sit back from the rifle and line vertical bar of reticle up with vertical axis of butt
Assuming you have no cant in your stock
Show me vertical on the hill. Who cares, just shoot it.
I usually hang a plum bob with bright coloured string somewhere, then level rifle with a builders level and line up the vertical line of the reticle with the plum bob.
Thanks for the replies. I had used a combination of Gimp's technique and "bore sighting" the door frame to get it lined up. There is still a small bit of noticeable cant, but I think it is as close as I will get it. These seem like they would be the ticket, but aren't made anymore Reticle Leveler guess it wouldn't be too hard to rig up something similar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norway
?? 1 degree of cant has an effect at 1000 yards please tell us why it dosen't mater.
Cant remember who showed me but lately I have used the line on a card method... Place the card on the ground with the line center of the but pad and sight back down thru through the scope so the line is parralel to the line on the card.. Used to do it the same as Gimp along with sighting to a level window pain while the gun is square either on a locked bypod or in a gun vice
Note when doing up the rings it will roll the scope if not done evenly
Because the cant is in the reticle/rifle relation and not the reticle/earth relation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminator
Your vestibular sense will take care of the cant in the reticle earth relation. If you are unable to stay within 1 degree a doctor should evaluate your physical condition as it can be a symptome of several illnesses minor and major.
Another way of thinking is the Gravity determins the drop so as long as the scope is level to the earth (verticle not level to the slope of the ground) the amount the scope is out to the rifle is only going to be sending the bullet on a slightly out to one side parralell to the scope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminator
If you use a level mounted on the scope it has to be correct to the scope cross or it will have a far greater affect as you will be second guessing your eye and holding it with cant to get the levl correct.
I reckon there is two subjects going here.
Levelling scope to rifle
Levelling scope while hunting.
No, leveling a scope for general hunting and leveling a scope for LR shooting or target shooting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirehunt
I normally level off the reciever or the bottom half of the rings, lock it in a vice and then mount the scope and level off the turret.
For a hunting hack I hold it up and what looks good is good enough.
You would be surprised Norway, I have seen in your shooting videos that you have a great shooting style. Your check weld and pivoting bi pod style must work well for you in this regard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norway
However the combination of uneven shooting surface and the uneven background sometimes seen through the rifle scope can really be misleading at times. Especially when bi pods legs or pod locks need to be adjusted.
My little spirit level has surprised quite a few when you put it on the elevation turret of their 'set up rifle'
There are enough factors in long range shooting against you without throwing a canted scope into the mix. If you are shooting animals at longer ranges, go out into the hills with a rifle set up to do the job properly!
To advocate anything but is lazy, misleads beginners and is part of what can give us such a bad reputation at times.
Levelling off turrets seems mad to me if you want to get that precise, if your going to go that far then the most accurate way would be level the rifle THEN set the level up away from the rifle in the horizontal or vertical and sight the reticle to that.
As for telling Norway off, I'm laughing my arse off about that one!! :D:D:D:D:D
The little level in the hills just serves as a check really if someone is fairly new to longer range shooting and has no anti cant device.
Your method does work well and is what I normally do as well. Turrets can be on the piss on some scopes, but usually pretty good.
Some people have machined sliding levels to level the rifle 1st as you say. Some use those Clip on plastic ones in x2 bits with the lines on them. Someone might know the actual name of the device?
If you do most of your shooting from a fixed style bi pod, non swivel style, no point leveling the rifle 1st if the sling swivel has been put in on the piss and your bi pod is canted...Within reason!
No intentions to offend or "tell anyone off"
Expressing my opinion on this great new 'relaxed' forum.
Glad to see you got a laugh :thumbsup:
:D you wouldn't be the first person to surgest i get my head checked.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Norway
I spent a bit of time on the cant issue over the last year mostly because the information I was reading was conflicting,the error induced by canting was never in question but the humans ability to overcome it was.Plenty of debate but no real testing just " i shot this and it wasnt a problem " or I put a level on and now Im shooting much better"sort of stuff.
What i did find was that some(not all) of those who believed they could judge cant where shooting far more on flat ground at man made targets which can give a point of reference,one guy adament that cant was a non issue had a power pole right beside his target .Iv seen some with a first hit being left or right and slightly low and call it a poor wind read where it may have been a cant error.In the end I decided to treat it as an individual issue,Do I need a level? So I set up a round target like a clock with minutes marked on it then mounted it so I could spin it.Placing it on the side of a sloping face making sure I had no reference ie a powerpole or building in the background etc i would spin it ,walk away then set up as if to take a shot.With the cross on the center I could read the miutes the verticle bar of the reticle was disecting, then it was a simple matter of walking back to the target and checkng the Actuall verticle with a plumb bob to determin how much if any cant error I was inducing.I tried a few different angles slopes etc from different directions.I now have a little level properly set up and clamped to my scope for anything over the 500 yd mark.When i set up its the last thing I look at,when I do i can be ok but othertimes I will have to correct, sometimes Im that far out I have to reset completley as theres not enought swivel in the bipod. I have no idea how other people can or can't cope with this but Iv now got a pretty good handle on my own ability or lack of.
You would have to have a seriously out of cant scope to rifle to throw it out more than 10mm to one side of the line of sight... If it looks right to the eye it will be fine (rifle/scope cant)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui4Me
Ground to scope is far more important..... Practice helps that and if you find you are not that good at judgeing that get one of the levels mounted to the tube...But make sure its set to the reticle not the rifle, Siting a level on top will enter more error than the can't will, turrets are often not right, bit of shit on it, not holding it down right etc...been there tried that. Have scope levels but I rarely have to adjust the position, but i have on occation when in a rush.
As has been said 2 subjects goin on here..Quote:
Originally Posted by leathel
For longer range the problem is dialing up a scope that is zeroed at 100 yards with a cant. This is why it matters at 1000yards as per terminators post.
Effects of Rifle Cant at Long Range — Tubb Explains « Daily Bulletin
That article is about rig cant to ground...... not scope cant to rifle, the scope to rifle will remain paralell as long as the verticle wire of the scope is in line to gravity (plum to ground, verticle to gravity or how ever you like to explain it)...as soon as that is not the effects in that article come to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui4Me
Re the 10mm get a 50mm stick/wire (roughly the center of bore to center of scope on most rifles) and sit it on a level verticly and move the top 10mm out of plum...that will be what the reticle is like with the rifle verticle to get it 10mm out to the side...as long as the verticle wire is plum to gravity when firing. (Hard to put in words what I mean)
With big flat stock buts and on benches with fixed rests the scope does have to be right to the stock as the rifle wont "lean" to correct the cant to ground...
Most scopes are 50 odd mm above the refle to the center line.... get a 50mm stick and move the top 10mm and se how far out the cant on the rifle to scope would be.
Oh and I must add if your lever is on the scope base like the one in the article your reticle wire will need to match it....
After wasting ammo due to an epic bore sighting fail, I did manage to get my rifle zeroed pretty easily in the end (once I got it on paper). My main concern is having the scope adjustments doing what I want them to do. I don't do the LR thing yet, so whether I am out buy a few inches at 500m is irrelevant. In the past I've always just chucked it on and eye balled it, but would like things lined up properly from now on.
My point has been about peoples ability to hold the vertical wire of the scope vertical to gravity.
People are assuming that should someone mount their scope on the piss, they will/should be able to compensate perfectly for the scope to rifle discrepancy.
Fair enough, the edge of the ply wood target board I use to sight in is fixed so it is perfectly plumb. I level my rifle and then adjust the scope to match the target board. A fence post or something driven in the the ground plumb would do the same thing for you if it makes it easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beavis
I'm happy for now. Might have to try it with my other rifles and see what happens
You lot want to go put a level on some power poles ;) Hell try finding straight ones if there not concrete....
As for fences, good luck with that, so long as they are sort of the same is all any contractor worries about :D