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A mate of my young fellah is keen to get into the sport. Asked my advice on purchasing a rifle.
I suggested that he couldn't really go wrong with a new Tikka T3.
Standard calibre, 308 or 270.
Budget up to 2K.
Any thoughts or helpful comments any one?
Yip anything will do just get him out there time in the bush is what new hunters need the most
Hard to go wrong with a Howa in 243/308.
If going the Tikka route then 270 or 30-06.
Probably better to buy second hand so there is more $ left for a good scope and mounts.
i would go howa over tikka myself. they are damn good and inexpensive. 308 is a good all rounder and i have shot lots with it before moving to 7mmRM
i have a scope for sale that would suit all these calibres
I have a sauer 100 that shoots a clover leaf if I'm shooting well, and my friend decided to buy one also, which also shoots just as well. So along with the other suggestions, I'd certainly put a Sauer into the consideration list at the same price point.
The only thing I'd say about a rem model 7, is that they are very light, and a new shooter may find the recoil somewhat intolerable. I say that from having owned 2 in 7mm08 over the years.
As @199p stated, so long as he/she gets out there. [emoji106]
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i like those sauers too, shot one and was impressed, just a little short in the stock for me though so i would have needed to fit a pad
Got a 20" 308 Bergara takedown I might be tempted to let go, if that's of any interest?
Good quality second hand.
Tell him to be patient and he will pick up a bundle of all sorts from somewhere.
tikka s/s 308 -7mm08 good starting point vx1 3x9. suppressor later on. Or go second hand and buy a complete package already set up.
308 has more factory ammo, so better chance of finding a store with ammo on the shelf.
I wouldn't put him in to a 270 and wouldn't go any lighter just my personal opinion
Thanks for the offer, probably not though
...shooting well...that is an understatement!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerardo
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...60bcc082bf.jpg
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@RugerM77 If he waits a couple of weeks there will be a lot of good second hand deals where people go along with others for their first hunts during the roar & decide it is not for them so sell the rifles they brought for it or want to upgrade after seeing their mates flash rig , in may last year l brought 2 bargains including a rifle l have looked for close to 10 years to find .
There was a very good deal for a bit more money on a Sako A7 in 7/08 fully set up with New Magnum DPT Suppressor ,Vortex 2.5 -10 & dies for sale on the forum not long ago,that would do him for the rest of his life with a quality well balanced accurate rifle that is not going to kick the hell out of him & good enough for anything that we hunt here. Buy Once, Cry Once :thumbsup:
https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....sako-a7-70889/
In all honesty.
Get said person to go into a shop.
Pick up a couple in the calibers their likely to purchase and see which one feels the best or fits the best.
Then if possible go to a range where other people have some these rifles or similar shoot them and then see which one they like the best.
I know that seems a bit old fashioned but it works.
For instance I find the Sako a7 and Tikkas dont fit me at all and I find the recoil pad on the tikkas to be terrible.
However hand me a Sako 75 or a good old Howa and I'm happy as a pig in shit.:thumbsup:
I hope this helps
Greetings All,
A decent trigger is an absolute must. Nothing worse for a newbie than a trigger he has to fight with.
Regards Grandpamac.
Reasonable priced used rifle with a good trigger and spend the rest on a very good reliable scope.
Or get an aftermarket trigger at the same time,
Any short action, 243, 6.5cm, 7m08 etc,
I would not go as large as 308.
Z
I would agree with ZQLewis.
6.5cm or maybe 7mm08 would be the go. 6.5creedmoor definitely seems to have overtaken 7mm08 for factory ammo options. Federal don't seem to be doing their newest lines in 7mm08 alot of the time.
I grew up shooting shotguns and my first rifle at the age of 19 I bought was a 308 and I very quickly developed a flinch. Still my main hunting rifle 12 years later but do wish I had got a lesser recoiling rifle to start with.
I didn't have someone teaching me the correct shooting techniques and trigger control though so if you are able to provide that for him then might not be such an issue. But I do think 308 and 270 can be quite intimidating for someone getting in to it if no correct training.
$1200 Bergara HMR in 308
https://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Lis...?id=3067176207
I've heard the trigger is nice on these.
$900 Marlin XL7 in 270Win with bushnell scope and bipod
https://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Lis...?id=3062854137
I know the trigger is nice on these.
A newbie might be a bit more recoil sensitive so something like a 6.5 Creedmoor (.264 cal) might be just right, plenty of good factory ammo available in a wide range of bullet types and weights. Good accuracy potential and lots of rifles now available in that clambering.
The tikka is a solid go to option, if price is a big factor in his decision making a howa would be a good buy.
https://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Lis...?id=3069299459
Low price and nice quality Weatherby 308. Looks like a Bell and Carlson stock too.
Only reason it's still there is probably because it's listed under the wrong category.
Agreed, or just swap a newer Howa HACT trigger for the old single stage one (easily spotted and the old one had a proper shoe for the saftey lever, not a bent bit of metal).Quote:
Originally Posted by ZQLewis
Don't think two stage triggers belong on a hunting rifle, possibly flinch-encouraging for a beginner...
Hopefully the young Tyro has a steady hand to guide them!
6mm is under-rated!
@Synthetic that is one hell of a deal !Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthetic
Hi Guys. Thank you all very much, awesome input and definately food for thought for the young fellah. When I say young fellah, he's turned 30, capable man, but only had his real experience in the scrub just very lately. Better late than never. I've copied everyones comments and pasted them by email to him. Given him a couple of pointers re fit etc and will leave the rest to him. Needs to be his rifle. Thanks for the heads up Synthetic, great deal. I'll pass it on. Cheers Everyone.
This subject’s been done to death in the past but here’s my 2c; a suppressed tikka is what I would be looking for in one of the following cartridges:
-243. This is a very good option due to minimal recoil and a low chance of the shooter developing a flinch. I’ve found them to be very effective for general hunting but they have some limitations compared to heavier calibers
-6.5 creedmoor. Great ballistics and low recoil, they are popular for good reason
-7mm08/308. Not a lot of difference between these two, they’re both great all rounders. The 7mm has a slight advantage in open country and the 308 is arguably better in the bush and has a better selection of factory ammo. The 308 is probably at the upper end of recoil for a new shooter, a limbsaver as well as suppressor might be the go
-270. This would be my least favoured option due to recoil, suppressor and limbsaver compulsory for a new shooter!
Also you can get managed recoil ammo for the .308 to start with then step up to full power loads later on.
The thing is a lot of guns end up with a suppressor.
The 270 is excellent for farmland and open top ( and the moors of Scotland;-) and when you don't have to go in tight bush. And it is still good with a suppressor and left full length.but it's recoil can put off a lot of people.
As soon as you go bush, you are better off with a 7-08 or a 308. And even if you mix bush/ farmland or bush/ further distance (350 to 400) you won't be undergunned with these two.
Now cartridge selection. I just looked at the guncity website as an indication:
- 7-08: 15 different types of cartridges and probably not all available ( one retailer told me there was a bit of a shortage of them at the moment)
- 270 : 26
-308: 49
I hope that will help.
The 270 Winchester in it's intended 130 grain loading is not a heavy recoiling cartridge, not sure where this idea comes from?
Loaded up with a 100 or 110 grain copper bullet it feels comparable to a 243.
Nothing is going to beat a 12G lead slug at 50 meters and under with equal shot placement, if legal then it would be my choice for bush hunts in a reliable pump-action shotgun with rifled barrel.
Im inclined to agree with caberslash that the 270 neednt be a heavy recoiling cartridge and a lot of rifles in it are on the heavy side which helps too. If hes over 80kg himself and under 50 years he can carry a full size rifle (4kg). I wouldnt recommend 243 for a new shooter. Fine if youre a good shot or only shooting smaller animals like goats or sika.
Id put some thought into the scope first.
He should get something equivalent of the leupold vx3i (possibly vx freedom are good too ?). The venerable trusted vx1 are not made any more. Go for about 3-9x or 2-8x and 30 or 40mm with capped turrets. Entry level zeiss and swaro are ok too but try and avoid the super value for money brands like sightron vixen ranger diamondback and others until hes an expert and can take a punt. @Tahr could give good advice onthese minority brands
@RugerM77 not mine could be worth keeping a eye on it
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketpl...3?bof=tBmfqpro
Recoil perception is different for everyone.and we all have a threshold. I have worked in the gun industry for the last 6 years, I have never seen so many 270 rifles passing into my hands since June last year. And they all want a suppressor for a good reason , the noise and quite often the kick.
Would be interested to hear some more details from you @Friwi, without risk of de-railling the thread, were most of them new shooters?Quote:
Originally Posted by Friwi
I think there are two trends which have caused people to think recoil is a bigger deal than it really is, 1- shooting from prone with a bipod and 2- lightweight (but cheap) factory stocks and short barrels.
Not many realise that a prone shot off a bipod will put the most recoil back into your shoulder. Add heavy pre-load onto the bipod attached to a cheap, flexy factory plastic stock, and you are in for a bad time. A properly supported (front and rear bag) setup will help a bit, although the 'free vs. fixed' recoil debate is another matter.
As mentioned, the rifle manufacturers are using hollow or semi-filled plastic stocks, which for all intents and purposes work OK (accurate and light) but they are by no means great. Personally recommend laminate options to people, which they can pillar and glass/epoxy bed themselves down the road if the rifle really needs it and they are competent. The stock not being hollow in the butt really helps. But those filling plastic stocks with expanding foam in the butt and epoxy + metal rods in the fore-end can crack on too!
The short barrels point, most of the rifles coming into the UK have barrels around the 20 inch mark, as the importer thinks everyone wants to chuck a moderator on. To be frank, a short barrel will usually need a moderator so it's a chicken and egg thing. I've got a 24inch barrel (technically around 23.5inch as they measured in mm!) on my Sako Vixen, carries fine and I think the longer barrel means it does not need a mod.
I'm not fond of the idea that someone buys their first rifle in the shop, say a Tikka T3x .270 or .30-06 (Jack O' Connor, peace be upon him, smiles down from above). Rifle comes out of box, nice balance, light weight, slick action. No open sights of course so you have to chuck on a scope and mounts.
Then you have to add a moderator, maybe not a huge amount of cash left after a good scope and mounts so cheaper (usually longer and heavier) moderator goes on. Now you'll need a bog-standard bipod to prop the rifle up for photo's, so a Harris or similar clone goes on too.
Wow, the rifle weighs so much now! Better chuck a sling (in reality, most are just cheap straps thrown together in Chinese sweat shops) on, so now the muzzle heavy rifle (due to bipod and moderator) can lean backwards and flail around wildly whilst they stalk/walk down the trail... and get hung up on branches, bushes, low hanging power lines etc...
If you can't carry the rifle in your dominant hand for at least 30 mins at a time, there is a problem! In Col Jeff Cooper's (personally don't agree with a lot of his stuff, but his book is OK) 'Art of the Rifle' he prescribes a test of holding the rifle in the dominant hand, extended and vertical around the grip area, for 60 seconds, as shown below:
Attachment 166291
@Bagheera yep I'm just over 6ft and bodyweight is 85kg. Mass definitely helps but I would say technique and practise are the great equalisers.
Caberslash’s post above has so many points that are so true.
Ive got this feeling that 4” of extra barrel moderates the sound at the shooters ear almost as much as 4” of suppressor in front of the muzzle. It would be very interesting to compare shooter felt report and recoil for rifles with x” barrel and one wiyh sorter barrel and a suppressor to make it up to the same length.
Like most people, my personal experience is limited. Im basing this on having used a 25” 303 for a long time and seeing its sound level was less than the 18” mohawk 600 223 Nd more recently a short model 7 223 which I just assumed was a 308 when someone detonated it on the next mound and i felt the concussion on my face and through my earmuffs.
I really like Jeff Cooper’s 1 minute test. It should be mandatory for all hunter class competitions. If you cant do 60 seconds its a target rifle. If you want to shoot a heavy rifle you should pump the iron.
7mm08 is a good option too. Nice big caliber to learn to shoot with and with a little less recoil it’s a bit more manageable than say a .270 for a younger shooter. Just my 2 cents.
Im a 308 fan,but for the average size beginner,a good second hand 223 with a suppresser would be a very friendly rifle for a beginner.Learn to shoot straight first,get a bit of meat on the table.Cheap to feed as well.Then maybe later on,get something a bit bigger if they want too.
@Synthetic. Thanks for the heads up, purchased it this morning. Cheers
great stuff, enjoy the new toy.Quote:
Originally Posted by RugerM77
@RugerM77 That's one hell of a steal at that price:thumbsup:
Nice deal, cant go wrong with the trusty 308. Good all rounder/ that or a 243 would have been another great choice esp if just bush shooting.
@bigbear it was interesting, placed in wrong category and the trade me algorithm didn't kick in. No licence details required. Might be to good to be true, we'll see.
