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A mate has had issues with his barvarian 223. Baffle strike in a DPT appeared to be the fault with a locally done threading job but on inspection the 1-8 twist stamped barrel is actually 1-12 and the 73gr eldms were tumbling. Hes taking it back to the despicable green shop so will be interesting to see how things go.
Gees that's a bit of a worry, be interesting to see what happens
Two or three inches seems quite a short distance to get much tumbling.
Of course they would tumble after hitting a baffle ...
Can you tell us more ?
how did it shoot at 25m and 100m or further without the suppressor ? That might give a clue to poor stabilisation.
Could you see whertherr the bullet had actually hit the suppressor ?
Shoots fine with suppressor on using shorter bullets even with the damage. Yes there are divots taken out of the segments in the suppressor but not to bad. With suppressor off the 73gr shot a 3 shot of 500mm at 100m with impacts showing oblong holes, one was a perfect bullet shape :D. They are tumbling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagheera
But how can you be sure? HahaQuote:
Originally Posted by sneeze
You can’t just that about the projectiles mate. It’s. a PC world out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by sneeze
You can say ‘they’re creative’.......
Um.....Quote:
Originally Posted by MSL
[img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...0ef33153_b.jpgIMG_1196 by Sneeze again, on Flickr[/img]
Rifle is on its way to Beretta. Confirmed 12 twist at shop so its an error with the marking on the barrel.. Shit happens but he has no rifle now and has the expense of threading,ammo and a munted suppressor.
At least he wouldnt have to worry about them expanding or not. :ORLY:Quote:
Originally Posted by sneeze
Bit of a bugger and I have no knowledge of Sako's production lines but I imagine it could be possible for one to be picked up and inspected and put back down on the wrong line or mabey the differnt twists are done in runs and it was the first or last of the run ?
Either way I see how it could happen making the same rifle in two twists.....Unfortunate.
I look forward to hearing how the big green shed treats him.
OK so after some negotiating it was agreed the rifle would be replaced. Nothing in country so a some months latter a new Barvarian turns up. Good news is the twist rate appears to be correct, bad news, the Brand new out of the box rifle has a split in the fore end and surprise surprise no replacements in country. Hes going to use it with the broken stock in the mean time but I would have thought Beretta might have coughed up a little something for all this hassle but no, all they seem to be offering is a long delay followed by long wait.
[img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...e920c858_b.jpgDrews sako stock by Sneeze again, on Flickr[/img]
Bloody hell, that'd almost be enough to make a fella reconsider his love for the brand.
Seriously thou it wouldn't take much for the importer to do the right thing by the customer.
Things will always go wrong and while it's not their fault it'd be easy enough to do what it takes to keep the client happy under the circumstances, it's a cost of doing business.
and his origonal rifle/stock is now where???? swap stock,buy him new suppressor and have barrel threaded...happy customer and brand name all good instead of expensive shit.
I think the original was sent back many months ago. Plenty of options to keep the customer happy but none offered, not even a hat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
I had a cooper I imported a while ago. It turned up in 6.5x284 instead of the 280ai I had ordered. The exporter was horrified and offered a replacement to my door in 7 days but given the hassle of permits etc we agreed on a set of redding type S match dies, a box of lapua brass and some berger bullets all free of any charge. Thats great back up.
Isn't this normal for Baretta....its everyone elses fault except theirs.
Fuk me days, have they move quality control to Somalia
Wait, even Somalia wouldn’t pass something like that
It's almost gone off page one, that will never do, lets keep this in view.
I would have thought Chris might be about but then again he could be away, holiday etc.
Has anyone ever actually contacted Sako directly and told them what a pack of useless bastards Beretta NZ are? Surely they would have to be concerned that the people representing their brand in a country full of hunters are dropping the ball on customer service? So many stories of how bloody hopeless they are to deal with
Its so bloody unfortunate that such fine products such as Tikka and Sako are owned by plonkers like Beretta - its not just a NZ problem, happens everywhere, and the nuppties that run it here are no better or worse than other countries . . . . . damm near makes me weep, I'd have a Tikka T1x in an instant if they were not such pricks to deal with . . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst
Has anyone ever actually contacted Sako directly and told them that it was a large coke I wanted and medium fries...not a medium coke and large fries. FFS.
Well this thread looks like a big bag of fun, lol.
Ill try to answer a couple of the questions posed in this thread.
1. Why did it take so long to get a replacement rifle?
A. Nil stock in NZ to replace it with. If a rifle was available in NZ it would have been swapped on the spot. (.223 in any model is currently very thin on ground due to everyone replacing their .223 ARs). As it could not be replaced from inventory with a caliber the end user desired, the only other option is to obtain the rifle from Finnland.
2. Where is the original stock?
A. Sent back to Finnland along with the rifle. When a rifle is deemed faulty its sent back to Finnland. They would then check it over and credit or replace the rifle. Keep in mind, had it been possible the rifle would have been replaced on the spot with one from inventory and the end-user would not be subjected to wait times.
3. Why cant we just give him another stock?
A. Unfortunately he needs a short action stock (.223), and as above .223s are mostly sold out across the board. Certainly no Bavarian .223s. If there was a stock available in NZ on a rifle in inventory, we would take it from that rifle without a second thought (or swap the whole rifle). Unfortunately we simply cant do it if we don't have it.
It's a really unfortunate series of events. I can see it must be very frustrating..
I have personally looked into this, and (hope to) have a replacement stock coming on the next shipment - which should be here next week.
I say "hope to" as iv only just seen this, and just contacted Finnland now - so I just hope we can make this happen in this short time frame.
@ChrisW, I think you've restored a few people's faith in Beretta NZ. It's nice to have you on the forum to set things straight! That said, you're a valued member regardless. B) Cheers.
Thanks. Ill even find a hat & other propaganda for the end-user! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Frodo
He might appreciate a new suppressor as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisW
I understand your sentiments but I’m not getting involved in that.Quote:
Originally Posted by stug
To quote Allan Martin...."Its the putting right that counts"..........
whats the green shed
Well I would say your expectations are a fair bit lower than mine. @ChrisW s explanation is just a reworded version of the events I had posted already,ie no replacements in country so will have to wait.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frodo
ChrisWs input is appreciated though and if the new stock can be expedited and its not the three months as told then that is good, as is the offer of some free bits and pieces but isn't that the least that could be done do under the circumstances?
Good customer service should be there as a matter of course not as a result of a thread on an open forum.
Yeah, but it's a start? At least there's someone you can talk to directly on the forum and trust on receiving updates from.Quote:
Originally Posted by sneeze
When I was at Beretta's mercy a few years back, it was a bit over 12 weeks before there was any sort of resolution. And I had to deal with middlemen, which made the entire process that much harder.
Let's hope the ball gets rolling for your mate.
Kudos to @ChrisW for helping a forum member out.
Problem is that while we will moan about Beretta NZ we will still buy their products because ultimately they have an excellent product, and they know that so Beretta NZ can continue the shoddy service.
Imagine how much better the experience could be if they treated customers with empathy and the same amount of joy as when we hand our money over....
I would've thought Baretta NZ would atleast replace the suppressor as it was THEIR product that caused the damage, not the customer
I would have demanded my money back and compensation for any damages/time etc .
Beretta would not have a leg to stand on in court and above and beyond this individual case the question has to be asked how was the barrel mislabeled and how many others like it are out there in the world .
If there is any cause to believe that this wasn’t a one off situation then a recall is justified and that will cost the big B alot of money .
Pull both your finger and your head out Beretta.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground Control
Where it all turns to crap is that as soon as you modify the rifle without written consent it looses its warranty. It lost its warranty prior to the issue coming to light. Obviously the warranty was/will still be honored.
By requesting reimbursement for a suppressor, threading etc you are requesting reimbursement for "illegal" modifications that were done without consent and that also voided the rifles warranty. (not illegal in the criminal sense, but hopefully you understand what I mean).
In saying that I have no idea what, if anything, is happening in respect to reimbursement. Im not getting involved. (im not saying there will be no reimbursement, im just trying to provide context)
Process will be followed. All requirements under the consumer guarantees act will be met.
And here was me just thinking I’d like to see a photo of that:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by sneeze
I must admit that I wrongly assumed that the rifle came from the factory threaded for a suppressor and I agree that any warranty was voided the second it was altered.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisW
But my original question still stands as to how many rifles are like this ( incorrectly stamped on the barrel ) and what actions Sako has done to track the problem down and rectify it ?
I understand the warranty but ive never known the threading of the barrel to change the twist:wut:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground Control
Im am not aware of any other occurrences of this happening. As far as im aware its an isolated incident. Sako might be aware of other instances (in which case im sure they would investigate and do what was appropriate), but im not.
While this is obviously a big issue and has caused a lot of headache, as supplied the rifle would only experience accuracy issues with certain weight projectiles/ would prefer a different weight projectile than was to be expected; as opposed to being a safety concern on what was supplied as a non-threaded firearm.
This is where it all gets a little murky.....
Using hand loads voids the warranty
Threading for a suppressor voids the warranty
Some reputable wholesalers ignore those two points because they are standard issue in this country, nearly even firearm gets a suppressor & plenty of Guys hand load & they realise bending over from time to time is a better long term outcome than not.
The issue as I see it in this case is the problem was caused by a manufactures defect, ie the wrong twist on the barrel, not a blown primer or overloaded ammo, or crappy muzzle thread....pretty simple really on the face of it.
Its a man made product, shit happens from time to time no matter who the manufacturer is
I have a Kimber barrel that was sent as a replacement for a 280AI that wasn't up to scratch a few years ago, it is marked as 280AI but is in fact a 30-06.....it got a Trueflite on it in the mean time so wasn't needed & is still unused...
Starting to just feel like bait.
Communications will continue with the end user and I hope for a reasonable outcome all round.
every new thing can have issues from time to time, shit happens but its the "putting right" that matters .............................................and that is often forgotten by businesses and long remembered by their former customers.