Suppressor-over barrel or barrel forward

So going to put a suppressor on the 270 and as the title says not sure whether or not to go over barrel or barrel forward and was hoping for advice from all you wise people.

Most of my hunting is done on the tops but to get there obviously have to go through the bush. For that reason I was thinking over barrel to keep the length down.

Is there a reason why I should be thinking barrel forward instead? Is there any performance difference between the 2?

Am fairly sure will buy a dpt as have heard good things unless anyone knows any reasons why I should be looking elsewhere.

Cheers

I have a over barrel DPT on my .270 and really rate it.....despite concerns of extra length I do 99.999% of the time leave it on even when stalking up through the tight bush.also got an older gunworkks spartan that also fits same rifle....over all length makes it 1" longer BUT strangly enough it FEELS to be less muzzle heavy...the only thing we can put it down to is the fact it comes further back towards stock...both work fine and weight difference is stuff all.I do like idea the DPT comes apart incase I nose dive in mud etc or wear out a baffle.

Over barrel adds less length, muzzle forward is cheaper.

Over-barrel suppressors usually enhance accuracy because of the stiffening effect on the barrel created by the rear support bush, as well as being shorter and usually more efficient than muzzle cans by virtue of their larger volume.

Usual toss up, price, weight, effectiveness.
Search the "Rod & Rifle Supressor test"
https://www.rodandrifle.co.nz/supressor-test.html#/

the graphs down the bottom show show effectiveness vs cost and weight and size.
If coming up through the bush you could leave the can off until you get to your target hunting spots.
Or look to find one with the least amount of forward projection. (Typically about 3"-6")

Zq

I have both that I can fit on my 308,only use the forward can if I’m hunting in the rain and need to use my open sights,looks and feels funny compared to the over barrel,the overbarrel seems a bit quieter as well and balances the gun better.

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Originally Posted by ZQLewis

Usual toss up, price, weight, effectiveness.
Search the "Rod & Rifle Supressor test"
https://www.rodandrifle.co.nz/supressor-test.html#/

the graphs down the bottom show show effectiveness vs cost and weight and size.
If coming up through the bush you could leave the can off until you get to your target hunting spots.
Or look to find one with the least amount of forward projection. (Typically about 3"-6")

Zq

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I've got a hardy gen 4 overbarrel which is fine but If I was going to buy a new one I would be seriously looking at the ASE SL5, it's muzzle forward but still less overhang than most of the overbarrel supressors it beats in decibel reduction

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Had the same question myself a couple of years ago.

The muzzle forward is really only suitable for range shooting because if you fall on it there is a lot of leverage which will either bend the last 2cm of the barrel where its threaded or else stretch and loosen the suppressor's aluminium threads more likely. If you're hunting you will eventually fall on it: maybe first day, maybe after 10 days maybe after 100 but you will eventually damage it.

For sound reduction, the length forward of the muzzle contributes a lot more than the length behind so for the same suppressor length the muzzle forward is more effective. Also the overbarrel has a second tube inside to hold the gases and its total internal volume is quite a bit less for the same overall size. The rear bushing of an overbarrel is generally hard plastic like delrin and reamed out by the gunsmith to give a few thou clearance all around so it doesn't contact the barrel unless you put force on the tip of the unit. I've seen gunworks ones that were tight but my DPT and ATEC ones have clearance.

My opinion is that modular is good for the recreational hunter because most suppressors are made way too long and all I'm trying to do is take the edge off the blast, not go for a real quiet level. For professional use like pest control health and safety tips the balance towards a heavier unit with more suppression but it doesn't have to be nice to use. For range shooting you're mostly using it for others' benefit so again a full size and muzzle forward can is preferred. I've taken modules out of both my centrefire suppressors to reduce weight and length. Also just my opinion but I reckon a couple of extra inches on the barrel reduces noise going back to the shooter. 20" and 18" barrels are real loud even with a small cartridge. The 270 is not small; I've lot noticeable hearing from just one nearby 270 blast after having lost very little firing hundreds out of my own 25" .303.

I don't know why you should listen to me not others but have a google around and look for an 80% consensus across the internet.

Re the rear delrin bush, I've had rifles come back from from fitting by reputable silencer manufactures with a slight clearance and I've also had experienced gun smiths recommend that they be touching but not tight.
I could make an argument for both

Currently I have both on my rifles. Have not experienced any movement or rattling on the one with a small clearance. Once they are done up on the barrel they are firmly locked in place. I view the rear bush as being to prevent excess flex in the silencer and that as the barrel may not be perfectly centered relative to the thread on the end and wall thickness etc so a small gap stops the barrel being subject to any side loading by the silencer down up in different positions.

Hi,

Here is an earlier thread on this topic:

https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....tml#post715364

What are you looking for from the suppressor? light weight and compact size or are you more looking at maximum suppression first?

If you are looking for a smaller suppressor with excellent suppression for its size, I would recommend the SL5i from our products:

https://www.aseutra.fi/s-series-sl5i-suppressor.html

In general with regards to over barrel suppressors, front mounting suppressors, their durability or suppression ability,

Not all brands are equal and there are great solutions on the market for both types of suppressors.

But then there are also small compact front mounting suppressors that are not very effective or not that durable.

There are also over barrel suppressors that are not as efficient as they could be or are otherwise overtly larger than needed.

The history, know how and resources of the manufacturer go a long way here, for optimizing both of these suppressor types

Our company has continuously manufactured sound suppressors now for 25 years, so we know a bit by now :)

Best Regards!

Tuukka Jokinen
Ase Utra sound suppressors

I’m sure over barrel shouldn’t touch at bushing point. If it does it can effectively “bend” the barrel between the muzzle and the rear bush causing accuracy issues. A gunsmith with a lot of experience explained this to me.

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Originally Posted by Ginga

I’m sure over barrel shouldn’t touch at bushing point. If it does it can effectively “bend” the barrel between the muzzle and the rear bush causing accuracy issues. A gunsmith with a lot of experience explained this to me.

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Correct, the back over the barrel suppressors should not touch the barrel in their rear part. Even though some manufacturers have said that they have a two point mounting system.

One of the few true two point mounting systems is for example seen in the U.S. Ops Inc suppressors, from a way back time already.

Best Regards!

Tuukka

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ginga

I’m sure over barrel shouldn’t touch at bushing point. If it does it can effectively “bend” the barrel between the muzzle and the rear bush causing accuracy issues. A gunsmith with a lot of experience explained this to me.

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That is correct, often the barrel is not concentric. We always run a slight clearance on our suppressors.

I’ve got two overbarrels a DPT and a Gunworks the DPT is lighter and seems to be my go to. I have been next to a Hardy’s when it let go and for that reason I would never buy one even though they seem to have sorted some of the issues now.

Not to sidetrack the thread , but is anyone making an overbarrel to fit the Tikka T1x rimfire ?

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Originally Posted by Ground Control

Not to sidetrack the thread , but is anyone making an overbarrel to fit the Tikka T1x rimfire ?

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The only overbarrel rimfire suppressor I'm aware of is the Hardy.
Most folk just use forward ones due to them being so much smaller than centrefire suppressors.
I use a DPT on my 16" T1x, and with all 5 baffles it's still the shortest rifle I own.

Hi,
Regarding the rear bush touching debate: we are fitting about 1500 of our suppressors per year on customers rifles( and not counting the 3500 other suppressor we sell to shops and public who get them fitted by their own gunsmiths).
We would probably investigate a dozen accuracy issues a year. And in most cases ,it is the rear bush being too tight around the barrel which causes the problem. I can not speak for other manufacturers designs, but that is what we found works the best with our over barrel suppressors.
Barrel outside countour concentricity to bore concentricity goes from excellent ( tikka,Sako....) to shocking (Asian productions and certain American ones....) , so much that we have seen up to 1.8 mm of outside concentricity. In those cases we set up and thread the barrel concentric to the bore, with a reasonably tight tolerance thread, boring out the rear bush till we do not have any more stress applied sideways by the rear of the suppressor onto the side of the barrel ounce screwed on. We have not found any negative effects on accuracy proceeding that way.
As to rattling issues against the barrel with the slightly loose rear bush, again our suppressors due to their design construction are less noisy than some manufacturers single tube overbarrel design, and we don't notice nor have reports of those issues with our products.

So, do you mean you have a clearance between bushing and barrel or is it touching/interference ?

It is touching the barrel from nearly 100% in the best barrels to maybe 20% in the worst cases depending on how much the barrel is bent or out of concentricity.

Hi Tuukka ,

Have a good Xmas mate & a happy new year .
Its been a long time ago that we shot the SMGs at the gun shop .

Yours Chris

Forgot to reply to this earlier but just wanted to say cheers for all the advice guys. Ended up going for the dpt over barrel. However instead of fitting to the old savage ended up buying a new rifle at the same time. I know its not everyone's favourite gun but bought a tikka t3 and am getting the suppressor sorted. However seeing as I'm currently trying to recover from rather bad back injury have no idea when ill be able to use it.

Once again thanks for the advice

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Originally Posted by ChrisF

Hi Tuukka ,

Have a good Xmas mate & a happy new year .
Its been a long time ago that we shot the SMGs at the gun shop .

Yours Chris

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Hi Chris,

Sorry for not catching your message earlier, hope you had a good holiday period!

Yes, it has been a long time since then, was not even working at Ase Utra yet at the time.

Tuukka

Another reason to run -definite- clearance between the rear bushing and the barrel is to prevent a changing zero when the suppressor is refitted. I was advised to do this by various experienced gunsmiths on a UK forum but my gunsmith at the time was of the opinion it wasn't needed. He fitted with barely perceptible clearance and sure enough, the zero would change annoyingly after refitting. At my insistence, he cut more clearance and the problem went away.

I had my current gunsmith fit a DPT to my old Rem VS (heavy barrel) .223. With the can fitted exactly concentric with the last ~3 inches of the bore, the bush taken down to minimum dimensions was still an interference fit with the barrel and he ended up having to skim about 1.5mm off the barrel down at the rear end of the can to get clearance. That bore has a shocking curve in it but is still a great shooter.