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Thread: Suppressors - Am I missing something

  1. #1
    Member mikee's Avatar
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    Suppressors - Am I missing something

    Whilst I have suppressors for most of my rifles am might be missing something
    Reading the Rod and Rifle Suppressor Testing article at least1l "manufacturer" made mention of the fact their unit included an effective integral muzzle brake.

    How would this work given its inside the suppressor and although it is possibly directing gas but to where? surely it would ll be caught by the suppressor which would prevent it behaving in the usual way a brake would. Would it just be the xtra weight of the brake causing the recoil reduction??
    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation................................but I'm not one of them

  2. #2
    R93
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikee View Post
    Whilst I have suppressors for most of my rifles am might be missing something
    Reading the Rod and Rifle Suppressor Testing article at least1l "manufacturer" made mention of the fact their unit included an effective integral muzzle brake.

    How would this work given its inside the suppressor and although it is possibly directing gas but to where? surely it would ll be caught by the suppressor which would prevent it behaving in the usual way a brake would. Would it just be the xtra weight of the brake causing the recoil reduction??
    I dont know the answers but know all my suppressors have an internal break of sorts.

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  3. #3
    Almost literate. veitnamcam's Avatar
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    It could possibly aid felt recoil reduction by spreading the recoil over a longer period as a suppressor does anyway.

    To reduce the actual recoil it would have to direct gas away from centerline (like a brake does) BUT being enclosed in a suppressor all gas would exit froward as per usual?
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  4. #4
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    I would have thought that the internals of most suppressors act and look like a muzzle brake, albeit an inefficient one. This is why they have a noticeable recoil reduction effect.

  5. #5
    Member Cordite's Avatar
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    Basic physics, every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

    1.- Bullet pushed forwards, gun goes backwards.

    2. - Fast gases forwards, gun goes backwards (think rocket). No. 1. is easy to understand, but the fact is that "gas has mass", and it escapes a gun at very high velocity!

    3. - Fast gases enter a suppressor and are slowed, cooled (read: de-expanded) and released more slowly forwards, gun pushed more gently backwards. All suppressors lessen and soften recoil in this way.

    4. - Fast gases are diverted sidewards, gun not pushed backwards or forwards(muzzle brake).

    5. - Fast gases actually directed more rearwards, gun actually pushed forwards (rearward deflecting muzzle brake). [NB the effect of "1." still applies.]

    Interesting case studies:

    - With a flat crown barrel, a fair amount of the escaping gases exit at 90degrees and so do not contribute to recoil.

    - Lee Enfield no 5 Jungle carbine, has a rocket nozzle shaped flash hider / muzzle shroud and so even naturally sidewards escaping gases get directed forwards... and thus much greater recoil is felt than when the flash hider is not attached. Not ideal for a very light rifle, but again, in addition to being an effective flash hider it also directs much of the blast away from shooters' ears.

    Hope that is helpful.
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  6. #6
    Member Ryan_Songhurst's Avatar
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    This is one of those things that frys my brain, like thinking about if you are driving along in a car and you hold a ball out in front of you and drop it, why doesn't the ball hit you in the chest?
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  7. #7
    Member Cordite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by veitnamcam View Post
    It could possibly aid felt recoil reduction by spreading the recoil over a longer period as a suppressor does anyway.

    To reduce the actual recoil it would have to direct gas away from centerline (like a brake does) BUT being enclosed in a suppressor all gas would exit froward as per usual?
    @vietnamcam,
    Yes, but remember the suppressor also cools the escaping gases before releasing them, thus contracting them and reducing pressure. Thus (in addition to slowly releasing gases forwards and thereby softening recoil), suppressors also lessen recoil.
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  8. #8
    Member Cordite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst View Post
    This is one of those things that frys my brain, like thinking about if you are driving along in a car and you hold a ball out in front of you and drop it, why doesn't the ball hit you in the chest?
    @Ryan_Songhurst,
    It might if you are facing forwards and it is a sports car. Try it with a large beach ball.
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  9. #9
    Member Cordite's Avatar
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    Muhchausen's Pigtail Suppressor with Integral Muzzle Brake.

    Thinking... why not have a rearward deflecting muzzle brake and have it enclosed in a can? Sell it as an integral muzzle brake suppressor.

    The gases, as escaping from the barrel would initially be directed backwards in the can.... No, really! Sounds like Baron von Munchausen pulling himself up out of the swamp.

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  10. #10
    Almost literate. veitnamcam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordite View Post
    Thinking... why not have a rearward deflecting muzzle brake and have it enclosed in a can? Sell it as an integral muzzle brake suppressor.

    The gases, as escaping from the barrel would initially be directed backwards in the can.... No, really! Sounds like Baron von Munchausen pulling himself up out of the swamp.

    Attachment 76188
    That is exactly what is being discussed is it not?
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  11. #11
    Almost literate. veitnamcam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordite View Post
    @vietnamcam,
    Yes, but remember the suppressor also cools the escaping gases before releasing them, thus contracting them and reducing pressure. Thus (in addition to slowly releasing gases forwards and thereby softening recoil), suppressors also lessen recoil.
    True tho I believe this effect is very small untill shown scientific peer reveiwed data showing otherwise.
    The expansion of gasses cool and contract them of course as per how we keep our beer and steak cool, and the suppressor is a radiator of sorts as seen by the mirage when using one for multiple shots but my gut feel is it is on its own not a significant source of recoil reduction.
    Happy to be proved otherwise tho.
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  12. #12
    Numzane Spudattack's Avatar
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    Suppressors - Am I missing something

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordite View Post
    @Ryan_Songhurst,
    It might if you are facing forwards and it is a sports car. Try it with a large beach ball.
    Depends if you are accelerating or braking, the opposite actually happens to what you think.

    Try it with a helium balloon in the car.

    If you accelerate you would think that the balloon would go backwards, but it doesn't, it comes forwards.
    Reason is that when you accelerate the air in the car is pushed to the rear and therefore is more dense at the back of the car than the front, so the balloon moves towards the less dense air.

    The opposite happens when you brake, the balloon moves to the rear as the air collects in the front.

    At constant velocity the ball would fall as if you were still as you are all moving as one unit, including the air in the car.


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    Last edited by Spudattack; 25-09-2017 at 10:03 PM.
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  13. #13
    Member Cordite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by veitnamcam View Post
    True tho I believe this effect is very small untill shown scientific peer reveiwed data showing otherwise.
    The expansion of gasses cool and contract them of course as per how we keep our beer and steak cool, and the suppressor is a radiator of sorts as seen by the mirage when using one for multiple shots but my gut feel is it is on its own not a significant source of recoil reduction.
    Happy to be proved otherwise tho.
    @veitnamcam,
    Yes, agree will be a small effect as metals have quite low heat capacity, esp after a couple of shots. If you have wet steel wool in a silencer however, there will be quite a high heat absorbing capacity, but again, just for the first few shots.
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  14. #14
    Member Cordite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by veitnamcam View Post
    That is exactly what is being discussed is it not?
    @veitnamcam

    I suppose it is. Let us see,

    (A) gun pulled forwards as gases are spit backwards inside the can.
    (B) gases slam into back of can and the opposite effect is obtained, cancelling out the first effect in flash.

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  15. #15
    Member mikee's Avatar
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    Would not the wright of the suppressor which effectively increases the total weight of the mass have more effect on softening the recoil. I just don't understand how gasses enclosed in a "can" which have no way to work in the same way as a brake (i'll call it the rocket effect) can reduce recoil on their own. I always assumed brakes effectively direct the gas in a direction which pull the gun f ward against recoil force.
    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation................................but I'm not one of them

 

 

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