Thinking about history - 1907 Tikka?

Recently Ive been thinking about the Grandfather I never knew (he died just before I was born].

Anyhoo - I stumbled over this article https://thehunter.nz/the-deer-of-new...-e-hardcastle/ and I was astonished, 100 trophy heads assembled in 1906. MY grandfather would have been 19, the next year he bought his first farm, and by 1914 he had two. So he was pretty focused but would have had a few bob.

So imagining he was inspired by the exhibition, and also needed to control the pigs that were definitely in the Pelorus at that time (deer I don't know about) what would be his choices in 1907 for a "modern affordable rifle" - maybe the equivalent of today's Tikka or the like. There were a few bolt actions about but also the likes of the Winchester Model 95 and others.

I'd love to hear opinions especially from the likes of @FRST and @Scout and @akaroa1 and @Waynesworld

Cheers

Interesting article 2 million visitors to the Great Exhibition is amazing. I suspect a good quality sporting 7x57 would have been a contender.

Yes I think there would have been Mauser Sproters from AW McCarthy, but they were always very expensive, same sort of territory as a $10K rifle of today

Wow early 1900s
Way to modern for me
He would have been dabbling with that fangled modern smokeless powder which was invented by the devil

Yeah pretty skeptical about the 2 million visitors

Google told me this

In 1907, New Zealand's population was just under one million. This included the Māori population, which was about 47,731 in 1906, a number that had increased from 1901 and 1896. The non-Māori population was 888,578 in 1906.

So I think @Tentman s grandfather must have visited an awful lot of times to bump the numbers up that high

The Winchester chambered in .303 British mustn't have been far away... Lee metford perhaps??? A Ross???

Carl Gustaf M96?

Well if he was a man of means and style I think he would have brought a Remington Rolling Block no5 in 303

Sadly the army would have borrowed it from him in WW1 and put bloody stamps and marks all over it.
And then mostly likely given him back any old bolt action 303 after the war

He could have avoided that problem if his no5 was a 30-40 or 7x57
In which case if he had plenty of ammo he would have happily been able to control those pesky pigs from his essential service of farming

No they gave back the same rifles with the same numbers BUT not in the same condition unfortunately.

Can’t imagine a lot of Mausers 98s in NZ at that time & certainly not common like a Tikka today, most likely not a bolt gun but a lever of some type Marlin 93 - Winchester 94/95 or I’m thinking a Savage 95/99 in 303 Savage ?

But then again Snider’s & Martini’s were the most plentiful I suspect ?

The Savage '99 is a definite contender, thanks Mark

Nah
My grandfather always said he got a much better 303 back that the one they took at the beginning of WW2

Over here it would have been a .303, martini, Lee metford, Winchester 92 in .38/40 or 44/40. Early 94 in 32 special or .30/30.

A few Mausers , FNs etc in 7mm and the like.

American rifles were dear and not common.


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Probably a Snider would have been the cheapest breech loader I'd say.
Then a Martini Henry,followed by a Martini Enfield.
Lee Metfords were only just over 10 years old in 1907 I think? Doubtful a poor farmer would have been cutting about with an example of the Empires finest weapon of the day.

Great question Tentman. It would definitely come down to how much of a rifle nut he was...
Alot of the opinions above would be correct.

1907 is quite early and availability would have played a huge part in what he could lay his hands on.

Going off photos at the NZDA National Heritage Trust and accounts from the books written by some of our earliest deerstalking authors-

McConochie talked about the Snider being his first available option when he started.

Major Wilson mentions a single shot 303 in his early forays into Otago country -most likely a Martini.

John Forbes had a Savage 99 -a beautiful example with engraving and ornate chequering -although it's difficult to pin down when he had this.

One of the Hodgkinson brothers had a very large Marlin lever action, in one of the early big bore calibres, judging by the look of the barrel profile.

The Boer war had just ended. Volunteers would be back with their Longtoms -no doubt a few were sold off on their return. Also the captured SAT (South African Trophy) rifles were distributed amongst the colonies and likely some also brought back privately. There is a very early clear photo of Eddie and Ethne Herrick in Otago somewhere with their guide who has a 1893 Mauser carbine, while Ethne has a Farquharson action single shot.

1895 Winchesters, British Mausers and the 1905 Ross all feature a bit too. But by and large the Longtom 303 would be the most popular and available rifle from the photos.

If I was your grandfather... I would have sought out the transition rifle between the 1905 and M10 Ross -the 1907 rifle -the Scotch Deerstalker pattern in 280 Ross. This shoots super flat and comes up like a fine shotgun.
Attachment 275613

Interesting read.

Greetings All,
This thread reminded me of a cautionary tale related to me by my mother approaching 70 years ago now. I had been given a Daisey BB gun rescued from the tip by a neighbour. The story went that some of her cousins, or more likely her fathers siblings, had found her grandfathers old gun is a shed or whatever and were running about putting matches down the barrel to provide smoke and taking imaginary pot shots at things. Eventually the piece went bang, fortunately not hitting anything of importance. Assuming the story was based on fact I have often wondered what the firearm was and where it is now.
Regards Grandpamac.

I would of said a 303 and possibly a Ross 280

Thanks guys, the SAT idea is interesting, there were quite a few Boer war vets in our district, buying one of those would have been a distinct possibility . . .

You could work backwards from what ammunition would be available at a reliable retailer within horse or wagon ride.
What was the nearest town and what did the general store stock.
Could he get ammunition reasonably easily from Christchurch or Nelson y postal order.
He would have been very restricted in his choices

There might have been some great old guns but impossible to keep the ammo up to them back then

Akaroa,
Good approach, the rifles and calibres used in the local rifle clubs drove use in hunting over here.

.303s were it here with discounted rifles and ammunition provided to members.


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I think it comes down to probability vs availability.

He could have machinegunned deer from the back of an elephant with a Maxim gun. There were both Maxim guns and at least one elephant in New Zealand in 1907.

However he most likely used what was the most affordable and suited to purpose.I would imagine Sniders being the most available but a Martini Enfield in 303 would have been more suited to purpose.Could have been a Lee Metford,could have been theoretically any firearms produced anywhere in the world prior to 1907.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scout

No they gave back the same rifles with the same numbers BUT not in the same condition unfortunately.

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Not in all cases from what I can gather - that's what was supposed to happen but... Relatives of the time for my extended family never got their uplifted firearm returned. I think in one case they were offered a cheap price on a near new .303, the first of the sold out of service ones after the war? I'm not too sure of the details, it gets a bit sketchy in there and one interesting sideline illustrating how sketchy is when my parents and aunties and uncles were sorting out my grandparents house after they passed on they found a Walther pistol in the ceiling (undocumented bring back). That was taken out of the country.

Hmmm. My understanding of "those days" pre WW1 might vary from some but I think things in general were a lot more sophisticated than we might think. The likes of the old AW McCarthy and Tisdalls catalogs give clues. Just about anything produced worldwide was known, and accessible, just with much longer time frames than we are used to these days. They were also better at anticipating what might be needed, I don't think you just bought one packet of ammo. Reading diary entries of the times give clues ( not about firearms and ammo) as to what sort of time frames they ordered farm supplies for example.

I've got a copy of the booklet on the history of the Otago deer herds, and as today, there were many different levels and approaches to hunting, from the very wealthy to the poachers who shot out the Japanese deer herd near Oamaru!

Oh well place your order now on this forum for a Model 1906 Mannlicher Schonauer 6.5mm
Totally your style @Tentman

Shouldn't take long to find one