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Thread: Tikka 223 not grouping after shortening

  1. #1
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    Tikka 223 not grouping after shortening

    Hey Team,

    Had a Tikka T3 223 1:12 shortened down to 18 inches. It used to shoot Belmont 55gr soft point just under and up to MOA depending on shooter. Obviously removed from stock and scope taken off before work done. Crown looks tidy as well.
    Took to range today and itís double grouping or not grouping at all.
    The scope had rings left on when taken off so I just torqued back in same spot.
    Stock was torqued to 35 inch/LB and then to 40 in case it was that. Iíve taken it apart again and thereís nothing touching barrel and aluminium lug isnít loose or has any damage.
    Tried some PPU ammo as well and thatís doing exactly the same.
    I wouldnít normally ask, but I know of so many that have been shortened for handy quad or ute guns that have shot fine after shortening and using Belmont. Also had a mate shoot it as well.
    Any advice would be great.

  2. #2
    Member Cordite's Avatar
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    You are correct, a short barrels is not less accurate. ShortENING however is a different matter, things can go wrong in that process.

    My first thought would be that it might just do better with a different ammo, but you thought of that one already.

    You have obviously had your rifle apart before and know how to put it together therefore, so not the answer.

    Given that the muzzle end of the barrel is where it was worked on, have you had a magnified look at the crown? A good mobile phone camera on macro will often help, stuff a bit of toilet paper inside the barrel, 2-3mm back from the crown, for a better view (too far back and the camera focuses on the paper!).
    McNotty likes this.

  3. #3
    The Scope Whore ! Philipo's Avatar
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    Normally cutting a barrel with a good crown shouldn't be a problem. As per the norm check that everything is tight'n'dandy and also check the recoil lug is seated properly in the stock ( they are a proper cunt & can sometimes take repeated attempts to get em sitting right )
    199p, gadgetman, McNotty and 1 others like this.
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  4. #4
    Member Clint Ruin's Avatar
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    Would be worth taking a second scope next time you go to the range to eliminate that variable.
    Cordite likes this.

  5. #5
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    Little bit of a piss off but that’ll learn me for f&$king with perfectly good rifles.
    What kind of things would I see with a crown that isn’t ideal?

  6. #6
    Member Cordite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McNotty View Post
    Little bit of a piss off but that’ll learn me for f&$king with perfectly good rifles.
    What kind of things would I see with a crown that isn’t ideal?
    A bit like wondering what your left thumb should look like - take a clue from your right thumb. I'd expect each land and groove which you see end-on to look the same. The classic "target crown" is cut at 11 degrees, not sure why, maybe the angle does not matter to the bullet, but it does protect the crown a bit as it sets it back from the muzzle.

    I'm not sure if there is no ready answer what the crown should look like, beyond even -- including on magnification. Out there on the net there is a joker who hacksawed an inch at a time off a new rifle and just removed the worst chips (no crowning), and she shot just fine after each mistreatment.

    Thinking of mistreatment - were you a good kiwi and did you give the barrel a really good clean and remove all the copper fouling before sending to the gunsmith for the shortening job? Maybe just needs some light shooting-in now?

  7. #7
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    It most likely will be just the crown shortening the barrel willnot affect accuracy if done properly
    Buy a Competent Machinist
    Theres a few guys of here that have very old school 1950’s thorghts on here almost like it was what there grandpa told them its 2019 guys a lot of what was thought to be true in the older days has ether been proven untrue ot been invaded by modern technology a lot of this is to do with barrel lengths and or shortened barrel and it’s simplyNot true in this day and age
    Every single centerfire rifle I have owned in the last 10 years have been shortened to 18-20” with no ill affect my creedmoor shortened from 24 to 20” will shoot 0.25” groups at 100 and I have mates with barrels as short as 13 or 14in barrels that are shooting sub moa at 100 yards and much farther

    Now to fix your problem simply get a Confident gunsmith to recrown the rifle
    Its a possibility that the Machinist that’s done the work has had his tooling slip in the barrel and fucked the last little bit of rifleing so he may need to trim another trim another 1/4-1/2” off to get rid of the damaged peice of barrel
    But then you’ll be back in Business

    The only negative effect of a Properly shortened barrel is the loss of a little speed normally arround 25-50fps per inch you shorten
    Last edited by rambo-6mmrem; 11-02-2019 at 01:08 AM.

  8. #8
    Member Micky Duck's Avatar
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    double grouping=bedding not sitting right...some shots the bedding is touching one way.....some shots its touching another
    also check the scope BASES...been caught TWICE by this both rifles had been to shop for work too come to think of it.
    I wouldve though if it was a damaged crown rather than 2 OK groups you would be more of a shotgun pattern eg one big stuffed up group.
    Cordite likes this.

  9. #9
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    35-40lbs of torque seems like a lot. What do the specs for the rings and for the scope say?

  10. #10
    Member Flyblown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PommyMcPomFace View Post
    35-40lbs of torque seems like a lot. What do the specs for the rings and for the scope say?
    He means action screws.

    When did you last deep clean the barrel McNotty?

    I had a similar problem yesterday, my normally reliable .243 shot like a shotgun, ten shots were 4-5" all over the place. WTF? Ran a boresnake through it, immediately after it shot 3 into half an inch. Carried on and the groups opened up again and the point of impact was way over to the left without me touching anything on the scope.

    Deep cleaned it yesterday, it was pretty bad. Will shoot it this morning, see if it worked.
    dannyb likes this.
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  11. #11
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    @Cordite @Flyblown was stripped out clean with Boretech, it would've had close to 50 rounds now through it while trying to sort things out.
    I'll take rings and scope off again, redo those and check out crown.

  12. #12
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    Check that the recoil lug is seated in the stock properly
    Im sure they are removable on tikka’s if it’s not seated properly down into its Recess it could be your issue also
    outdoorlad likes this.

  13. #13
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    I had a sako that would clover leaf at 100 with factory winchester
    shortened it to 18.5 inches and it went to A4 paper sized groups
    It may have been a bulge or something that was on that part of the barrel

    gun got a new barrel at 18.5 inches and shot like a dream again
    everything is a risk. most of the time its fine to shorten but not always

  14. #14
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    shorten it even more first
    you have nothing to lose my ar15 wears a 12.5 inch barrel and shoots under an inch at 100m

    or just keep changing brands of bullets till you find something that vibes with your current length

  15. #15
    Member Tussock's Avatar
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    May be a bedding/harmonics issue due to taking weight off the barrel, rather than length. It does not say what stock you have, but a plastic stock can go silly over relatively minor bedding issues. They barely take the weight of the action and barrel at the best of times.

 

 

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