Thread: Are we seeing a shift to smaller calibres and lighter bullets?

This talking head video crossed my path on Youtube. Bit waffley but the keys points are basically what gets said here a lot.



It got me thinking, this is a North American justifying a 6mm Creedmoor for large Alaskan game ffs, using one of our favourite bullets of recent times, the 108gr ELD-M. A match bullet. (His load is almost identical to mine which is interesting.) There's more and more of this turning up in my feed recently.

However over the last several years, there's been a good number of videos basically damning any hunter that uses a soft match bullet to everlasting hellfire. And broadly speaking the vast majority of comments support this. And of course there are thousands of videos damning the .224 and .243 cal users to the same fate. The comments can be almost addictive - lots of nasty fights between guys arguing over and over. But here we are on the ass end of the world getting into the weeds of .224 and .243 calibre hunting rifles - its been one of the dominant forum topics for ages.

So the question is - who has actually shifted down in calibre as a result of all the recent fast twist & new projectile developments, and the result of this forum's findings?

Me, my longest calibre/cartridge association is with the .243 Win, but I have started to use .223 Rem and different projectiles directly as a result of being influenced by the .223 thread. But the reality is I have shot more deer with the .308 over the last several years than all the others put together (including the Creedmoors). And that isn't going to change probably ever. (But I think that's got a lot to do with the DPT Hunter chassis and the simple scope setup - I could drop one of probably 10-12 Tikka barrelled actions in common chamberings into that chassis and get the same result.)

The internet chat represents a very very very small part of the Nz hunting population

Most guys have a rifle/scope/calibre combination that suits the game and areas they are hunting.

They're catching up on reality, about 20 years after the rest of us

I have and I have not.

My 22-250ai... essentially a 22 Creedmoor... absolutely slaps. Drops deer like anything else with 88gr ELD's or copper monos. But at 6.4kg, it only really gets used on private land where there's a quadbike to carry it for me.

And I've also gone smaller in cartridge and heavier in bullet for night time work. Using a 9mm and a 338 ARC... But I usually have my 223ai on standby for when it's too windy to be trying to shoot subs or I just want to get the numbers on the deck from 3-300m.

Then for my last hunt on DOC land I took a 284 with ELD-M's. And I will be taking a 308 out this weekend (not match bullets though).

Variety is the spice of life, or something.

Just musing while I eat my lunch:
1. better options with smaller diameter projectiles now? longer, high BC options, that also perform well on game at longer ranges? What was around 20 years ago?
2. smaller calibre nicer/easier to shoot accurately?
3. rifles (barrel really?) in general have just got better, allowing more precise shot placement at longer ranges
4. as above with optics
5. The ones who are using the 5.56/6mm cartridges with high BC bullets are simply more prolific on social media, youtube, etc, so we see more about it, while the rest of the hunting population just get on with it using their 270, 308, 30-06, etc...

Originally Posted by bjp

Just musing while I eat my lunch:
1. better options with smaller diameter projectiles now? longer, high BC options, that also perform well on game at longer ranges? What was around 20 years ago?
2. smaller calibre nicer/easier to shoot accurately?
3. rifles (barrel really?) in general have just got better, allowing more precise shot placement at longer ranges
4. as above with optics
5. The ones who are using the 5.56/6mm cartridges with high BC bullets are simply more prolific on social media, youtube, etc, so we see more about it, while the rest of the hunting population just get on with it using their 270, 308, 30-06, etc...

I think the second oenreally nails it on the head....If you look at what damage to humanely drop an animal and WHERE you have to do that damage, accuracy is one of the most critical factors. I am not talking hit the centre of a 5c piece at 500 yards, but knowing that if you intend to destroy the lungs / heart, that first you need to be able to put the bullet there... SO ask yourself,,,can you get a smaller bullet there more easily seeing as there will be less recoil, and less flinch? Will it get into the animal deep enough to do what is needed to be done? A bigger bullet with more power wont do any more damage if it does not connect with where it is supposed to inflict said damage. But if it does there is usually more damage done meaning "wriggle room" if the shooter is off slightly.

Put it this way, You can drive a 4 inch nail in with a 4oz tack hammer if you can swing it fast enough and hit the nail....but if you use a 20oz or 40oz hammer you will have an easier job of it if you are slighlty off but if you cannot hit the nail with a 20oz but you can with a 4 oz then you will have more luck driving the nail in if you hit it than if you miss with the bigger hammer....In this scenario, I tend to hunt with a 8lb sledge....

Just the current trendy super fast 22 centrefire chambering.
Add it to the list of 22ARC and 22 Nosler being popular in the USA. Especially as those 2 fit the AR15.
Pretty sure the trend included the 224 Valkyrie a few years ago?

Ideal for coyote and feral pig control.
Even for your 1 ticket a year white tail.

Not suitable for Elk/Wapiti, Moose or big land mammals with sharp pointy teeth that might eat you. So that title 'big game' is a bit misleading IMO.

My journey has essentially gone .308, .270, .308, 7.62x39, .223/223AI.
The 223 has been my go to for everything since 2017 and I have very rarely felt like I needed more, pretty much the only time I had concerns was putting down cattle but I just made extra sure I was confident in my shot and never had and issue there.

Now I'm adding a 6 Creedmoor because I got given an old Ruger M77 with a shot out barrel and it sounds like an interesting easy shooting calibre with factory ammo available.
The EXO guys really did prove the cartridges capability with The Experience Project videos

Originally Posted by Deanohit

My journey has essentially gone .308, .270, .308, 7.62x39, .223/223AI.
The 223 has been my go to for everything since 2017 and I have very rarely felt like I needed more, pretty much the only time I had concerns was putting down cattle but I just made extra sure I was confident in my shot and never had and issue there.

Now I'm adding a 6 Creedmoor because I got given an old Ruger M77 with a shot out barrel and it sounds like an interesting easy shooting calibre with factory ammo available.
The EXO guys really did prove the cartridges capability with The Experience Project videos

I loved my 6CM very much and was highly impressed by the accuracy and knockdown. Then I stopped using it after a change of method, but I'm keen to restart now. Got a heap of ammo loaded for it. Its a heavy rifle suited to sniping goats across gullies to 500-600. I've shot full sized reds to 450m with it and been amazed at the damage. 108gr ELD-M.

I'm going to watch those videos tonight.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

I loved my 6CM very much and was highly impressed by the accuracy and knockdown. Then I stopped using it after a change of method, but I'm keen to restart now. Got a heap of ammo loaded for it. Its a heavy rifle suited to sniping goats across gullies to 500-600. I've shot full sized reds to 450m with it and been amazed at the damage. 108gr ELD-M.

I'm going to watch those videos tonight.

Yeah the old Ruger boat paddle aren't exactly super light so it should be pretty tame.

They're some of the best hunt videos I've seen in a while, stuff all fluff, just straight up maximum efforts producing some epic results

.222 and .223 with 50-55gr pills have been used prolifically in NZ for many years to shoot deer. Nothing new really, other than the heavy for calibre high BC pills now do it even better. It just looks like the Yank mentality of big magnum cartridges is wearing off now that social media has opened their eyes to what
the smaller calibres are actually capable of. Especially now with their PRS shooting and competitions teaching them to shoot more competently.

NO

Small bore will never catch on

I'm in the process of building a 577 3" Black Powder Express rifle because 450s and 500s just aren't big enough

Two formed 577 3" cases flanked by 223 rounds

if you threw the big brass at em and it hit that alone would flatten em are you sure these arent ex 105mmpack howitzer shells ?????

Originally Posted by akaroa1

NO

Small bore will never catch on

I'm in the process of building a 577 3" Black Powder Express rifle because 450s and 500s just aren't big enough

Two formed 577 3" cases flanked by 223 rounds

Attachment 287061

Ideal for signaling bi-planes in WW1

May I remind all participants this is a thread about small bores, not artillery.