What scope to choose (.22 benchrest)?

Guys, I use a CZ457 varmint for rimfire benchrest shooting.
It's a great wee rifle.
But...what scope to choose now. I tried a Leupold 45x45 Competition but it wasn't happy at only 25 yards range (and to be fair...that scope was never designed for that use anyway).
I can get an older new/unused Weaver T36 with the fine cross hair reticle. But at 74 I do worry that maybe I might have trouble seeing those fine cross hairs.
I can't see the scope...it's in Oz. So can't test it out.
It has a 25mm (1") tube, and will focus down to about 15yards.
Price wise...about $NZ900 by the time it gets here.
Or, do I just get a modern vari scope such as an Athlon Argos BTR 10-40? (has a 30mm tube).
Then I can wind the magnification up or down to suit the target conditions (or mirage if I ever shoot outdoors).
Price about $1000-1100, and it too will focus down to 10-15 yards.
I know the Weaver is good, and the China made glass not so good.
But I'm not intending to shoot in the Olympics. I just shoot for my own entertainment and enjoyment...but I also like to shoot well.
I just want a decent sight picture, and a reticle I can see easily.
Any thoughts?
Thanks.

I got a 12-42(I think, been a while since i checked it) Nightforce NXS with a fine crosshair, meant for benchrest and F class if that would work? I'm not using it so I should probably move it on.

I'll flick you a PM.
Thanks.

I got a Konus Pro 6-24x50 ffp mrad scope for my EM332 prs rifle

Attachment 192718

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Originally Posted by cambo

I got a Konus Pro 6-24x50 ffp mrad scope for my EM332 prs rifle

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I see that Konus make an M30 12.5-50x56...and that would be great for me, but I worried about the quality of the glass.
Will it go all soft looking, and blurry if I set it on 50x?
How sharp is your image?
Thanks.

@Tentman

For what it's worth, my wife and I are in our 70's. We had a T36 FCH DOT on an Anschutz 1710 and it went down the road pretty quickly - Neither of us could see the reticle well and by the end of a session, we both experienced eye strain. That scope was replaced with a Clearidge 6-20 with fine duplex DOT which works very well in a BR situation up to 100 yards.

https://shop.theopticzone.com/rifle-...ot-matte-3640/

I've recently been running two Meopta Optika 6 in 4.5-27 with the BDC3 reticle. The glass in these scopes is very clear and the DOT covers roughly .2" @ 100 yards. Clarity and reticle choice are more important to me than top end power.

https://www.meoptasportsoptics.com/e...x50-sfp-13174/

None of these are purpose built BR scopes but are adequate and reasonably priced for a person who shoots for pleasure.

https://i.imgur.com/v7s7TjS.jpg

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Originally Posted by Grey Kiwi

I see that Konus make an M30 12.5-50x56...and that would be great for me, but I worried about the quality of the glass.
Will it go all soft looking, and blurry if I set it on 50x?
How sharp is your image?
Thanks.

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Its mint.
Very happy with it.
Its not a huge dollar project and I wasn't interested in spending moonbeams on it.

If you want a quality high magnification scope with good Japanese glass and great tracking, then I would always recommend a second-hand Sightron.

The money you spend for them s/h makes them great value, and if they were originally purchased in NZ, they will come with the NZ Sightron lifetime warranty.

What I can say about the Sightron is the Exactrac mechanism is absolutely spot on and dials perfectly. Sightron is highly rated for this feature. The only scope that probably dials better would be the Nightforce but that is quite a bit more expensive.

I have the Sightron SIII SS 10-50x60 with MOA-2 reticle and find the glass and tracking exceptional. My scope focuses down to 10 yds and if you are interested I could be convinced to sell it. PM me if you are...

Haha @viper - like I know much. My thoughts vary considerably from most peoples- I can shoot my best groups with a very clear 10x scope. Not because i have any sort of exceptional eyesight, actually the contary, I have tired 60 year old short sighted eyes! And they tire quickly, they can only hold focus for 10 seconds or so. My preference is to allow the eyes "natural" qualities work for me. I like
A big aiming point that allows the eye to quarter
or centre white space - eyes are good at this but most poeple try to outsmart themselves with high power and fine reticles, which works ok for younger eyes but gets increasingly more difficult as you get older.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hermitage

If you want a quality high magnification scope with good Japanese glass and great tracking, then I would always recommend a second-hand Sightron.

The money you spend for them s/h makes them great value, and if they were originally purchased in NZ, they will come with the NZ Sightron lifetime warranty.

What I can say about the Sightron is the Exactrac mechanism is absolutely spot on and dials perfectly. Sightron is highly rated for this feature. The only scope that probably dials better would be the Nightforce but that is quite a bit more expensive.

I have the Sightron SIII SS 10-50x60 with MOA-2 reticle and find the glass and tracking exceptional. My scope focuses down to 10 yds and if you are interested I could be convinced to sell it. PM me if you are...

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Sightron is one of those booths at shot show that is huge with massive range of products but always empty. I see them as a manufacturer who knows how to build a fantastic product but doesn’t have a market for. Except maybe bench test.

What are the features of a bench rest scope?

I had a look at leupold 45 and weaver T 36. Apart from being fixed power, which I don't think is a feature, I don't see anything special.

They are neither cheap nor particularly sharp compared with variable power scopes.

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Originally Posted by Ultimitsu

What are the features of a bench rest scope?

I had a look at leupold 45 and weaver T 36. Apart from being fixed power, which I don't think is a feature, I don't see anything special.

They are neither cheap nor particularly sharp compared with variable power scopes.

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An accurate benchrest rifle, deserves a rifle scope that can go the distance and give you accurate results. Therefore a benchrest scope is all about precision - mechanical precision and optical precision are of utmost importance. It's also about high-end, high-magnification scopes. For me this basically means choosing a quality brand name, as I feel it's essential for quality assurance, durability, optical clarity at higher power, and lifetime warranty.

Taking the above factors into consideration, my choices would be limited to five scopes: Weaver T-36, Leupold 45x Competition, Nightforce Precision Benchrest 12-42x, Sightron SIII 10-50x, and March 8-80x 56 scopes.
These scopes have very accurate detailed target-style turrets with very fine adjustments of 1/8 MOA. Reticles are either fine crosshairs to allow for adjustments and target focus without any 'clutter' like PRS scopes. Or they can come with an open central dot of 1/16”, 3/32” or 1/8” Minute-of-Angle (MOA).

I have this for sale japan made weaver 6-20x40 with fine benchrest style retacle
Ive got a couple of them
I used to use for 25m competition
Attachment 192820 $450 posted

Both my Weihrauch rim fires wear that scope! IMO, these were one of the best all purpose variables in 6-20 power range that ever came out of Japan - Very clear optically, reliable tracking in 1/8 clicks, Varminter (fine duplex/dot) ideal for target work and parallax adjustable to about 15 yards - rambo-6mmrem, that scope is a bargain!

https://i.imgur.com/GcOTQ8B.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/LlVGko1.jpg

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Originally Posted by HJA8

Both my Weihrauch rim fires wear that scope! IMO, these were one of the best all purpose variables in 6-20 power range that ever came out of Japan - Very clear optically, reliable tracking in 1/8 clicks, Varminter (fine duplex/dot) ideal for target work and parallax adjustable to about 15 yards - rambo-6mmrem, that scope is a bargain!

https://i.imgur.com/GcOTQ8B.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/LlVGko1.jpg

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Yeah mate
Got 2 of these
And a couple of leupold vx3 6.5-20efr’s
The leupold is a much more expensive scope but in my honest opinion unless you really need big target style turrets
Which for 25m you probably don’t 20x is plenty of power at 25m you can aim in the Center of a .22 bullet hole in paper - most of my shooting was indoor so didn’t need turrets
As once the scope is zeroed it’s zeroed
But even if you did need a few clicks here and there for wind
The smooth adjustment in the weaver will do the job
Just take the caps off before you start shooting

Personally the only Difference between the vx3 and the grand slam is the vx3 has those tall turrets
Apart from that they are muchnesses and muchnesses some say that the weaver glass is even slightly better but I can’t tell them apart when looking through them

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rambo-6mmrem

Personally the only Difference between the vx3 and the grand slam is the vx3 has those tall turrets
Apart from that they are muchnesses and muchnesses some say that the weaver glass is even slightly better but I can’t tell them apart when looking through them

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That's why I like the Clearidge Ultra XP 6-20 I mentioned above. Also made by LOW in Japan, has all the features and clarity of the GS plus has T36 type turrets! (AND is several hundred cheaper than the VX3). Only issue with most of these 1" tube higher range variables is the limited internal adjustment - No biggie for me as I mount everything in Burris Signatures and compensate with the off set inserts.

https://i.imgur.com/SWmVUKK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/O2vgFb1.jpg

I use a 22lr every week for pest control
i use a 10/22 semi with a ags 3-9 x 40 on the quad bike
a norinco with a niko sterling gold crown tactical 3-9 x40 aoe with a sytong clip on night sight = very heavy but great fun
browning t bolt with a 6-24x 50 aoe, it’s a save barn cheap thing that’s just awesome , for being so cheap , I just did not expect to be so good,

Well guys, as expected there is always a lot of different thoughts on this subject.
I had a Leupold 45x45 Competition scope but it didn't really like being focused down to 25 yards. Was a nice scope though.
Then I thought I had a Weaver T36 (new/unused) sorted but the fine cross hairs do get lost (Hey, I'm 74 so I don't have a young man's eyesight anymore).
Put up one of my targets at the local GC yesterday and checked out a Bushnell 4.5-30 scope.
Nope...30x is nowhere near enough to accurately line up a target central 'dot'. My quick measure with a ruler says 3.5mm diameter (might just be 4mm?).
I don't want to scare the target. I want to drill a hole right in the middle of it. Each time, every time.
40x and higher is 'normal' for 25 yard benchrest.
So, I am looking at a Nikko Stirling Diamond (Made in Japan), 10-50x60, new, in box, unused. Called a 'Big Nikko' by airgunners in UK. You can look that up to see about these scopes. Quite well rated overseas.
Not made in China, has good glass, has the large magnification I want. Can focus down to 10yards, so 25 yards will be a doddle for it.
Will probably have it in my hot sweaty hands later this week.
Yes, could buy a Sightron, etc...but where?
I have trawled through all the NZ websites I can find, and nothing in country at the moment, and no-one really knows when the next shipment will arrive.
Plus, I am not interested in a 2nd hand scope which cuts out a lot of 'possible or maybe" buys.
Only other option might have been an Athlon Argos 10-40 but made in China, costs almost as much as the Nikko, and certainly not well regarded as the Nikko is.
Many thanks though for all the help and thoughts.
Much appreciated.
Now, here's what I like to do...that's one of mine. Shot a 100.5 for the whole card.
The bullet hole is larger than the actual central 'dot' I'm aiming at, 25 yards away. This is no place for a 10x scope!

Attachment 192932

That’s easy with a 20x and the right Reticule
Of course if you have a thick hunting one obviously it’s going to cover the target
With a fine bench rest style one you can shoot a hole in paper then put the reticule over the top
You can easily see all 4 sides of the hole with the Center of the reticule hay diddle diddle right down the middle

With your bull being only a faction bigger than the 22 bullet hole
You could probably do with a little bit bigger
I wouldn’t say you need 45x though
25-30 would be plenty
The issue these days is getting a reticule that’s fine enough
Most scopes are angled towards hunting and prs style shooting
They have much thicker reticule’s and mill dots etc
Which just gets in the way when trying to shoot tiny targets at close range (25m is close range)

That's has been one of the problems rambo, most NZ gear is aimed (no pun intended) towards hunting.
Target gear is a small niche market.
We have guys with 40x scopes who are now looking for 60x.
Mind you, none of us are younger than 45-50 so maybe fading eyesight adds to the need for higher magnification.
I did like the 45x Leupold. It showed all I needed at the target.
Tried a 30x, but was too small (for me).
Yes, Mil dots, thick reticles, etc are a pain.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hermitage

An accurate benchrest rifle, deserves a rifle scope that can go the distance and give you accurate results. Therefore a benchrest scope is all about precision - mechanical precision and optical precision are of utmost importance. It's also about high-end, high-magnification scopes. For me this basically means choosing a quality brand name, as I feel it's essential for quality assurance, durability, optical clarity at higher power, and lifetime warranty.

Taking the above factors into consideration, my choices would be limited to five scopes: Weaver T-36, Leupold 45x Competition, Nightforce Precision Benchrest 12-42x, Sightron SIII 10-50x, and March 8-80x 56 scopes.
These scopes have very accurate detailed target-style turrets with very fine adjustments of 1/8 MOA. Reticles are either fine crosshairs to allow for adjustments and target focus without any 'clutter' like PRS scopes. Or they can come with an open central dot of 1/16”, 3/32” or 1/8” Minute-of-Angle (MOA).

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I do not mean to sound argumentative but I do not really understand what you mean by Optical Precision. In fact, from what I read, SIII 10-50 is optically meh at high magnifications.

Mechanical precision is fair enough, but all high end scopes can achieve this. If you look at precision long range shooting websites' reviews, usually only the high end scopes are truly precise : night Force, Hensoldt, TT, Khales, Razor HD, SB, March etc. I have never seen anyone testing T36 for mechanical precision. As a related point, do benchrest comps shoot at varying distances in the same match? If not, then I also do not understand why do they need super accurate clicks.

If there is weight limit to benchrest comps then I can understand the need for a specialised breed of scopes with light weight, high magnification and finely adjustable clicks.

@Ultimitsu I'll try to answer each one of your points:

Benchrest is a precision rifle shooting discipline where it seems like everything is a big deal. Therefore high mag and high-quality scopes are nearly always recommended (perhaps some 'keeping up with the Jones as well?'). It's also a game for somewhat OCD perfectionists who are obsessed with precision. Hense I used the words "optical precision" to mean 'sharpness' or basically the optical clarity to show up the sharp lines of the target circles (the word precision is thrown around a lot in this sport).

The Sightron SIII 10-50x has an excellent reputation, and my 10-50x tracks very well. It also has very good glass for the money. Yes, there is a clarity issue at high mag but that's an issue with most ultra-high magnification scopes at the absolute max magnification...just don't run them wide open. Running anything wide open is probably pushing the limits.

The Weaver T36 doesn't have to be tested for tracking - it has proven itself over years of use. Therefore it comes with a solid reputation for good tracking at a relatively low (now s/h) price.

No, benchrest competitions don't shoot at varying distances over one match. However, they do shoot outside in the wind. Therefore accurate clicks are very important. Arguably the most important is probably reliability or to hold the point of aim or point of impact. Every internally adjustable scope ever produced has the potential of changing POI and that's why most shooters buy the best scope they can afford. Some are even going for another option which is to "freeze up/lock up" the internals of the scope and use only an externally adjustable base.

Yes, Nightforce scopes are precise but the main issue I have with them is their weight. They are twice as heavy as a Weaver T36x, Sightron 36x, Leupold. This makes it tough to mount a NF and still make weight without sacrificing stock and barrel weight. So yes there are weight classes in Benchrest.
If you can make weight with a Nightforce, then sure buy one and you'll probably not have to worry about anything again... except explaining where all the money went...