Thread: Why are 4-20 scopes not more common/popular?

They seem like they would cover a good range at both ends of magnification. We all shot with 4x32 scopes in the bush for years. Also only need 5x rather then 6 which seems more common these days. Yet we only seem to get 3-15 or 5-25.
I know there are a few out there but not many.

Can't speak for North Island, but none of my hunting in the South Island is bush hunting. It's rare for me to ever take a shot below 150m (for which the low-end magnification on a 3-9's, 3-15's, 4.5-14's is enough, sure)... But the high-end makes precise aim (especially on the more typical 300-400m shots) a lot easier.

E.g. I can clearly see and select the part of the pig or the wallaby that I want to shoot, and can then dial up and hit it pretty reliably with a high power scope. With much less than 8x, the thickness of the crosshair might be largely obscuring what I'm aiming at and I feel like I'd be falling back to the old "just put the crosshair on the animal and pull the trigger" method which doesn't satisfy the inner perfectionist.

I've wondered that for years!

over 20 power and recoil usually makes you loose your sight picture. 4x is usable at close range. 6x is not. 4-20 makes sense to me as the best compromise for my type of shooting.

I too have wondered the same thing.
4x provides a pretty good FOV for most close range shooting and 20x is enough too shoot a very long way.

A 3-15 often doesn't give enough magnification on the high end and a 5-25 scope is often a physically very large scope.

Manufacturing scopes with a range of 5, say 4-20 that work well have only recently become commercially viable in price ranges people want to pay.
Having said that Carlos Hathcock did pretty well with a 10X Unertl and deer are generally a fairly decent sized target unless specifically neck shooting.
The nightforce 2.5-20 NX8 would pretty much cover most bases, rifles, hunting, targets...ranges though if can afford the $$$

I tried a 4-12 and hated it...went back to 3x9 and fixed 4x I dont shoot past 350-400 and dont shoot much smaller than a wallaby.

Originally Posted by jackson21

Manufacturing scopes with a range of 5, say 4-20 that work well have only recently become commercially viable in price ranges people want to pay.
Having said that Carlos Hathcock did pretty well with a 10X Unertl and deer are generally a fairly decent sized target unless specifically neck shooting.
The nightforce 2.5-20 NX8 would pretty much cover most bases, rifles, hunting, targets...ranges though if can afford the $$$

This was my understanding as well. 3-9 is only a threefold increase, 4-12 is the same, 4-16 and 6-24 which were other common sizes especially in the more budget price ranges are again a four fold increase. The bigger the range is the harder it is not to get distortions and effects from "over magnification" (Not quite sure if hat is the right term...). It is now becoming more common for people to have access to higher quality scopes - Leupold used to VX (vari power) or FX (fixed power ). Now the selection is so much larger than it used to be. A simple Tasco 3-9x40 was the cheapest vari power scope on the market when I bought my 2nd hunting rifle in the 90s and even then the Tasco cost me a weeks wages. Leupold would have cost me two weeks wages for a VX1 3-9x40 and a new Ruger 308 was closer to a months wages. Oh how things have changed.....

As manufacturing processes develop, I suspect that we will see more of the ones the OP asks about ; 4-20, 5-25 or even a 2-18 or 3-21 where we see a seven fold or even a nine fold increase in magnification.

I guess they can't make everything. It's like my imaginary 27-08 cartridge.

Probably it would need to be quite a bit bigger all round than a 3-15x of the same objective.
Or quite a bit more expensive than a 4-16x.
And difficult to get true good resolution at 20x = cost, so you're only looking at top of the range models for it to be worthwhile.
A model close between existing Leupold VX5 sizes could just cannibalise their own market share.

The closest is the Swaro Z5 3.5-18x and that was pretty expensive when it first came out. Also a rather long scope.
Another is the S&B ultra short 5-20, again quite expensive.

I'm not sure. Perhaps it is a market niche that could be filled.

Originally Posted by Mauser308

Probably 20x is a lot more than what most people need? The majority of hunting can be done with 3-9, 2-10 or even 1-4 or 4x fixed power. Also, it's quite a technical thing to sort a 5x or 6x magnification range in a scope like we use without showing weird effects or visual errors.

On thing I've found is with a 2.5x scope, and a deer on the other side of the dense flax bush 1.5m away the magnification made it almost impossible to visualise and resolve the animal on the other side of the flax. I could see an eye, an ear, and fluff by Mk1 eyeball, but I couldn't pick those features out through the scope. I just couldn't get things resolved to me satisfaction in the situation I was in, if I did it again and had my noggin switched on a bit more I would have reached through the flax bush with the gun and dropped it with a 2" shot. As it was I had a conversation with the hind (old matriarch of the group) for about 10 minutes with us barking at each other and confusing the issue. My hunting mate watched the whole debacle unfold and was doing the "shoot, SHOOT" hand gestures with me doing the "can't see, can't see" reply. Comical.

Almost as comical as me standing in the cornflakes looking out over a clearing for the deer I knew was there somewhere, standing virtually still for about 15mins only to find it had snuck in behind me and was watching me from 1.5m trying to work out what I was up to. I never heard it move in the cornflakes, a lesson. Not quite sure who got the biggest fright when I turned around. Comical...

By a Kahles and the close focus problem isn't a problem

I think that as electronics get better and better we will see more scope with electric zoom like cameras and laser correction like burris eliminators - just small and compact.

Originally Posted by Bagheera

I guess they can't make everything. It's like my imaginary 27-08 cartridge.



I'm not sure. Perhaps it is a market niche that could be filled.

that isnt an imaginary cartridge...quite a few of them around....much better than the 7mm imposter the latte drinkers use.... the 6.8 spc etc have sort of filled the niche a bit more now too.

March have been pumping out scopes with 10x magnification for quite a while. Their 2.5-25 definitely covers most hunting use cases. The scopes can focus down below 10M, are light, have good optics, and dial reliably.
If there is a downside, it would be that they are not mid priced scopes. You occasionally see them for sale second hand, but you have to be quick.

Originally Posted by jackson21

Manufacturing scopes with a range of 5, say 4-20 that work well have only recently become commercially viable in price ranges people want to pay.
Having said that Carlos Hathcock did pretty well with a 10X Unertl and deer are generally a fairly decent sized target unless specifically neck shooting.
The nightforce 2.5-20 NX8 would pretty much cover most bases, rifles, hunting, targets...ranges though if can afford the $$$

Having just put the 2.5x20 on my 308 tikka I'm in love with it.
On sunday was validating at 1264m on papa then on the edge of darkness found it easily had enough light gathering to place my shot on a red spiker.
An amazing scope worth every cent and dont regret the money I spent to own arguably the toughest most reliable and repeatable scope on the market today bar none.

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3-15x scopes can be had with 1inch tubes.
Once you step up to 4-20 power, you really need at least a 30mm tube to avoid dull optics - so suddenly 4-20 scopes jump up in size and become closer to the big boys, 5-25s etc then the 3-15s.


Once you step up to a 4-20 with a larger 30 or 34mm tube dia, the whole class of scope shifts- and comparable options become 5-25s class optics, and not 3-15 size.

Then we get to 4-20 vs 5-25 debate-
Both options will be fairly large, and if you go with the 4-20 you still have a big scope.
If you sacrifice 1x on the low end you get an extra 5x on the upper end if you go 5-25 over 4-20.
Often these large scopes go on heavy, long range guns which will rarely be used at close range, in bush, where 4 power would have any real advantage over 5x.

IMO this is why 4-20 isnt that popular. Its kind of stuck at the start of the big boy class. I think people generally fall into either "i need a lightweight hunting appropriate optic", or "I need a LR optic and size doesn't matter". 4-20 is at the start of the size doesn't matter class, where you may as well just go bigger again. Some of the new modern stuff is changing the game here a bit but unless we are talking $5k scopes then I think this general size class reasoning applies.

Personally, for a hunting rig I think the new Burris Signature HD Scopes look amazing.. there is a 2-10 option with a 1inch tube and 120moa elevation, and a 3-15 with 1inch tube, zero stops etc with 80moa elevation. Now that's getting into bigger tubed dedicated LR scope territory in a hunting package.

Originally Posted by ChrisW

3-15x scopes can be had with 1inch tubes.
Once you step up to 4-20 power, you really need at least a 30mm tube to avoid dull optics - so suddenly 4-20 scopes jump up in size and become closer to the big boys, 5-25s etc then the 3-15s.


Once you step up to a 4-20 with a larger 30 or 34mm tube dia, the whole class of scope shifts, and comparable options become 5-25s class optics, and not 3-15 size.

Then once we get to 4-20 vs 5-25 debate-
Both options will be fairly large, and if you go with the 4-20 you still have a big scope.
If you sacrifice 1x on the low end you get an extra 5x on the upper end if you go 5-25 over 4-20.
Often these large scopes go on heavy, long range guns which will rarely be used at close range, in bush, where 4 power would have any real advantage over 5x.

Personally, for a hunting rig I think the new Burris Signature HD Scopes look amazing.. there is a 2-10 option with a 1inch tube and 120moa elevation, and a 3-15 with 1inch tube, zero stops etc with 80moa elevation. Now that's getting into bigger tubed dedicated LR scope territory in a hunting package.

It will be interesting to have look at those offerings to see what they go like.
There is getting to be a lot of options out there these days.

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