.223: The Ins & Outs of it

I shot my first deer 17 years ago with a .223 and have always had a probably unreasonable enthusiasm for it. It seems to work well even with 55gr size bullets but there is a lot more potential if using heavier bullets. Factory rifles are a bit limiting for the best possible results with the longer 75-90gr bullets mainly due to restrictive mag length now that 1:8 twists are more available. Aftermarket mags like the AICS pattern accurate mags can be modified easily to allow about 70mm OAL, 10-15mm more than most .223 factory mags. This is a more modern and geeky approach than the spirit of the ol' .222 with factory 55 grainers but it does extend the capability of a .223 by miles, to within spitting distance of standard factory .243 maybe but for half the powder. 80gr at 2850 from an 18" barrel.

I like my custom model 7 and haven't taken another rifle out of the safe in the last 6 months but have only been out 4 times and shot 4 deer with it so far.

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I am thoroughly impressed with Bruce's dedication to continuing to get out in the hills also

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Originally Posted by gimp

I am thoroughly impressed with Bruce's dedication to continuing to get out in the hills also

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This last night. 7-08 @ 110 yards though. Common garden 140 sst

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Originally Posted by gimp

I shot my first deer 17 years ago with a .223 and have always had a probably unreasonable enthusiasm for it. It seems to work well even with 55gr size bullets but there is a lot more potential if using heavier bullets. Factory rifles are a bit limiting for the best possible results with the longer 75-90gr bullets mainly due to restrictive mag length now that 1:8 twists are more available. Aftermarket mags like the AICS pattern accurate mags can be modified easily to allow about 70mm OAL, 10-15mm more than most .223 factory mags. This is a more modern and geeky approach than the spirit of the ol' .222 with factory 55 grainers but it does extend the capability of a .223 by miles, to within spitting distance of standard factory .243 maybe but for half the powder. 80gr at 2850 from an 18" barrel.

I like my custom model 7 and haven't taken another rifle out of the safe in the last 6 months but have only been out 4 times and shot 4 deer with it so far.

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Exactly. Im limited to the 77 Sierra tipped because of mag length but man they punch above their weight. Have just bought some 80 eldm and have a long T3 mag on the way from Aus. From what @gimp has posted (through pics) the eldm are a bit harder than the Sierra tipped. The Sierra at 2.9k are impressive all the same, and Im not quite sure why Im mucking around with the eldm. Maybe mu ocd :)

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings Tahr and Tilly,
I suspect that a lot of hunters today wouldn't have heard of the solid base. Nice deer should be tasty.
Regards Grandpamac.

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I was thinking the same thing , back in the day when using a .243 the 100gr Nosler solid base was a very good pill on deer.

Still got some for my 243!

This .223 theme.

2 last night. 77grn Sierra Tipped MK.

Fallow at 250 yds, boiler room.

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Big lump of a stag at 100 odd yards. High neck shot. 3 stags together, all still had their head gear on.

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@Tahr how far did that fallow make it?

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Originally Posted by charliehorse

@Tahr how far did that fallow make it?

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Less than 15 yards. Just a bit of a rush down hill. Have just skinned it - hit lowish centre shoulder.

That Red is a big looking animal!

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Originally Posted by nor-west

That Red is a big looking animal!

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Bit of wap in the red,its big allright.

@Tahr Im literally weeks away from taking the .222 on its first jaunt after deer. To say im fizzing would be an understatement .

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Originally Posted by Nathan F

@Tahr Im literally weeks away from taking the .222 on its first jaunt after deer. To say im fizzing would be an understatement .

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Great! Looking forward to hearing how it goes. Nice bit of nostalgia. Your Dad was a culler wasn't he?

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Originally Posted by nor-west

That Red is a big looking animal!

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@nor-west he was a big one alright, and not that old. The cocky was a bit pissed about a group of reds raiding his locked up weaner paddock so I swung past there on the way home - it was dark by then so I used the torch. I saw six and snuck in on 3. One was plenty because it took me 2 40 minute trips fully loaded to carry him out.

@Trout - no wap. They are just big deer in that particular area.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Great! Looking forward to hearing how it goes. Nice bit of nostalgia. Your Dad was a culler wasn't he?

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No just nzfs

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Originally Posted by Nathan F

No just nzfs

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The hills are in your blood.

Last week i did a couple of evening walks with the Serbian 222,expecting to see yearlings,no luck tho.Nice wee rifle on your sholder,hardley know it was there.

For some reason I've only just seen your original post from back in march @Tahr. Very cool post mate and a neat thread. :thumbsup:

What advantage do you perceive in carrying a 223 as opposed to something like a 6mmCM or 243 shooting 100 grains super fast? To me a bigger bullet and larger diameter is always better. both of the 6mm's have a longer effective range and still affordable/able to aquire projectiles.

I only had a 223 as it was cheap shooting in an AR. never seen the point in buying a replacement 223 when they were ban hammered. Never seemed like 223 was effective on goats and pigs but i was using barnaul. @Tahr

I was using a 223 on goats out to 300 yards last week with standard fiocchi 55gn soft points, it was certainly effective and much cheaper to feed than a 243 or 6mm cm
My 2 cents

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Originally Posted by dannyb

I was using a 223 on goats out to 300 yards last week with standard fiocchi 55gn soft points, it was certainly effective and much cheaper to feed than a 243 or 6mm cm
My 2 cents

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Bruce uses gucci barnes and noslers. they're up there in price. back when powder was well priced then using a pretty standard projectile a 243 wouldn't be too bad to reload for.

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Originally Posted by Russian 22.

What advantage do you perceive in carrying a 223 as opposed to something like a 6mmCM or 243 shooting 100 grains super fast? To me a bigger bullet and larger diameter is always better. both of the 6mm's have a longer effective range and still affordable/able to aquire projectiles.

I only had a 223 as it was cheap shooting in an AR. never seen the point in buying a replacement 223 when they were ban hammered. Never seemed like 223 was effective on goats and pigs but i was using barnaul. @Tahr

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Mostly, its the tradition. The meat hunting days and nostalgia for me.

With the 77-80 grn bullets at circa 2.9K in the .223 you are close to 243 performance with half the powder and less noise and fuss. And almost invariably deadly accurate.
And using any .223 bullet you are going to be aware of the energy and range limitations and take more care with the shot placement - that's very satisfying.

And to be honest, when I shoot a deer with the .223 I do feel rather smug.

It's so easy to shoot well from awkward positions, comes in tiny light rifles, and absolutely smokes things with the 75-80gr bullets. What's not to like.

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Originally Posted by Russian 22.

Bruce uses gucci barnes and noslers. they're up there in price. back when powder was well priced then using a pretty standard projectile a 243 wouldn't be too bad to reload for.

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On deer, yes to the 64 grain Nosler solid base bonded - I have 150 and then they are finished. They went out of production last year.

55 Barnes were good but haven't used them for a couple of years.

One of my .223's is sighted in for the 69grain Targex and thats a good duel load for wallaby and deer.

Mainly use the 77 grain Sierra Tipped on deer now. They are wonderful.

On wallaby Im using what I can get: 69grn Targex (but they are nearly all gone and Targex cant make any more for quite a while because he doesn't have jackets) and 55 grain Sierra GK mainly. Quite a few 52 grain Targex (they are still available).

I have a few hundred 52 ELDM loaded but not used yet, and 300 55 grn Hornady to load.

Great versatile caliber and heaps of fun.

And you don’t need the flash harry high BC heavy .224 bullets either.

A well placed Belmont 62gr softpoint makes a beaut mushroom and red hinds bleed out very quickly or go down DRT if you judge it right and nail the hilar. Just wait for the angle quartering away, tucked in around rib #7 raking across the vitals - unsurvivable. I reload the Belmont / ADI brass with Speer 70gr semi-points and get exactly the same outcome, except the Speer sheds a little more weight.

Just avoid the leg bones… wait for the angle.

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Originally Posted by Russian 22.

What advantage do you perceive in carrying a 223 as opposed to something like a 6mmCM or 243 shooting 100 grains super fast? To me a bigger bullet and larger diameter is always better. both of the 6mm's have a longer effective range and still affordable/able to aquire projectiles.

I only had a 223 as it was cheap shooting in an AR. never seen the point in buying a replacement 223 when they were ban hammered. Never seemed like 223 was effective on goats and pigs but i was using barnaul. @Tahr

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You’re right. The extra diameter, weight, and speed that a 243 has over a 223 make it a more emphatic killer as far as deer go. Do the numbers on a 243 with a 90gr eldx vs a 223 with a 73gr eldm; the 243 has almost as much energy at 300yd as the 223 at the muzzle. I found that deer hit hard in the chest with a 223 would often run some distance before expiring; not far but far enough to piss me off. Maybe it was the monolithics I was using, and in hindsight I would’ve liked to have tried something like an eldm, I’m sure they would’ve performed better. But there’s no such complication with a 243, just poke a no frills soft point in the boiler room and game over

You are also correct @7.62.

Love my .243....but as many others above have pointed out the .223 can be a deadly, lightweight setup if used within the confines of the cartridge. Like almost every calibre.

Pretty sure @Thar and @gimp know what they are on about.
@gimp I'm sorry if it has been covered before but if you can be bothered could you please give us a run down on that rig?

Would have thought the 69 grain+ bullets rule out the wee Sako Vixen as an action... anyone put a fast twist barrel on a Vixen?

That being said, having both a Rem Model 7 and L461, I'd be very tempted to turn the Rem Model 7 into a 1:7" twist .223AI...

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Originally Posted by caberslash

Would have thought the 69 grain+ bullets rule out the wee Sako Vixen as an action... anyone put a fast twist barrel on a Vixen?

That being said, having both a Rem Model 7 and L461, I'd be very tempted to turn the Rem Model 7 into a 1:7" twist .223AI...

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My factory Rem M7 stabilises the 69 grn no problem. 1:9 I think.
I use a 1:8 Tikka for 77 grn.

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Originally Posted by Preacher

@gimp I'm sorry if it has been covered before but if you can be bothered could you please give us a run down on that rig?

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Model 7 stainless action, 18" bartlein 1:8 barrel, dpt mini, Manners EH8 stock, CDI bottom metal with modified Accurate mags allowing long OAL loads, timney trigger. Favourite rifle by far. It has a March 3-24 ffp on it now instead of the Mk4

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Cheers for that. I like a lot.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

On deer, yes to the 64 grain Nosler solid base bonded - I have 150 and then they are finished. They went out of production last year.

55 Barnes were good but haven't used them for a couple of years.

One of my .223's is sighted in for the 69grain Targex and thats a good duel load for wallaby and deer.

Mainly use the 77 grain Sierra Tipped on deer now. They are wonderful.

On wallaby Im using what I can get: 69grn Targex (but they are nearly all gone and Targex cant make any more for quite a while because he doesn't have jackets) and 55 grain Sierra GK mainly. Quite a few 52 grain Targex (they are still available).

I have a few hundred 52 ELDM loaded but not used yet, and 300 55 grn Hornady to load.

Great versatile caliber and heaps of fun.

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The 77 because of the BC? My mate swears by the 55gr Barnes and mates in Auckland scream do not adjust the telly... 60gr Hornady in the Vixen. Last outing with my Barnes mate we got 3 with the 65gr Sierra. You look in the reloading cabinet and there is a whole load of different pills to use and you wonder if it will ever happen.

Bugger you guy no sooner than I get some dosh in the bank I need a fast twist .223 so .224 Valkyrie in 1/7 twist be the go?

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Originally Posted by nor-west

Bugger you guy no sooner than I get some dosh in the bank I need a fast twist .223 so .224 Valkyrie in 1/7 twist be the go?

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.223 howa mini, ken Henderson stock, 77 TMKs

A bit late to this thread. I love my cheap little Vixen clone, a Zastava mini Mauserish action with a 1:12 twist. It's fairly accurate and small things fall over to it on a regular basis. I nailed a little pig, about the same size as the one Gimp had on the previous page, shot over a rock at 250m and the 55gn Hornady soft point placed just behind the ear dropped it straight down. Such a pleasure to shoot and it's accuracy gives me the confidence with shot placement.

I was looking for a better quality 223, the Savage was at the top of the list at the time, but I just couldn't justify buying it as a replacement for this little thing that cost me $400 very used with a scope several years ago. I know it, ... it seems to know me, ... happy families.

Everyone who's got a zastava mini seems to like it.

my wife was preggers with our first...I went hunting in greenstone for a week and took enough smokes for two days...came out and had enough $$$ to buy pack of John Brandon 15s or a meat pie...the pie won...my good wonderful Mrs said use your smoke money and pay off a rifle,so off to Dixs we went..the yhad mini mauser in hornet....oh boy was that tempting,even had open sights..but I ordered one in 223 as ammunition was cheap....it duely arrived and came home with a 3x9x40mm nikko stirling gold crown (Finnwolf has that awesome wee scope now) and 100 rounds of norinco yellow packet FMJ to break rifle in.
down to local secluded beach..fire one shot,clean,shoot clean,shoot clean,shoot 2 clean,shoot 2 clean.... shoot 3 call it good.
went out spotlighting on mates place,20-30 hares dropped no problem...another place similar number of rabbits...mate loaded me up some reloads 55grn winchester projectiles and 24.5grns AR 2206 H it shot tiny wee group.....WOW
went up to my wallaby spot with my young bitch "Buttons" we walking around hill face and she started acting all goofey like (oh if I had only known about indicating dogs then) I EVENTUALLY twigged she knew something was around,looked across gully and say mob og pigs making good their escape,sat down,rifle braced elbows on knees,3 shots three neck shot porkers.....WOWY WOWY.....
was close to dark by time they were gutte and propped open so returned next day to collect...I was hooked
many years of shooting wallabies,learnt to reload for cost....
then discovered varmit type projectiles..that was eye opener on wallabies,no more runners....
barnes 50grn ttsx preform like a 130grn coreloct out of .270 just in reverse order of damage on animal... its the near shoulder that looks worst with barnes...
at a guess Ive fired 1000-1500 rounds through the wee Zastava and it still more accurate than me....half dozen folks have killed first animals with it....
put a 3x9x50mm older leupold on it,sighted in 1.5" high at hundy about 15 years ago and havent shifted it since...
it will put just about any ammunition from 45-64grns into ragged group hovering around inch...and thats a COMBINED group....eg it doesnt matter which ammuntion is in rifle it will hit within inch at hundy....... rifle cured flinch for me...its reasured "Royal twelve/Jasper" he could shoot...sub inch group with 5 mixed rounds prooved that.....so YES I do love my wee Zastava.
she sitting in gun case waiting to head out after wallabies tomorrow...RUMPYs young fella might just shoot his 2nd wallaby with it tomorrow,he sure pulled one out of box to get the first...RUMPY held forestock up on end of his upright barrel,young fella lined up rifle with butt OFF/ontop of his shoulder, as was too long I held buttplate in hands and he moved Xhairs onto wally and squeazed trigger...neck shot at about hundy yards..... try that with a heavier calibre.

Good tale Micky..

Pic of my new-to-me 223. This is a worker rifle - Howa/Mueller scope/Gunworks. Bought for the hills after wallabies, and 100-200m bunnies from the truck. Should be spot on for the job:

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Originally Posted by Brian

Everyone who's got a zastava mini seems to like it.

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Not me, I've had two and didn't enjoy either. I think I sold you one of them...?

Yep. Bedded and suppressed it. Been going like a dream ever since.