Diesel injector cleaner additive ?

Something is up with my 2003 Mazda Bounty.

On cold start I get rough idling, engine vibration - almost like it is missing ? Puff of white smoke. Once the engine is warm, all good. Can't say I am feeling any loss of power etc. It is a 2.5 turbo, not grunty at the best of times, affectionately known as the "land slug" :-)

Once the engine has warmed up, no smoke, idling fine. Restart after taking dogs for a walk etc is fine, so it looks like it is limited to cold start.

Glow plugs changed recently, that was the first suspect - ute has done close to 200K.

Dirty injectors ? Is it worth trying injector cleaner additive to the diesel ? Any particular brand worked better for you ?

One of your new glow plugs may have failed, my brother had that happen to him.

I used Moreys.
Seemed to work ok

EGR stuck?
"royal egr cleaner" is the stuff, its sprayed into the intake over 10 minutes and blows the crud out

Possibly not an injector, Sticky valve???

But yes, a failed glow plug is worth checking out.

Don’t start using “cleaners”, likelihood it will just be a waste of money.

If you have recently changed the glow plugs then you need to check that they are working. Have you tested the glow plug relay? When you switch on the ignition and the dash glow plug light is on, you can measure the voltage at the glow plug. If it is not returning the correct voltage then the relay isn’t switching them on properly. I forget what the correct value is. I fixed WL-T engined Bounty a few years ago after the owner threw money at it replacing things without running any diagnostics, just guessing. Waste of money! From memory the glow plug relay sits next to the main fuse box.

If the glow plugs are operating correctly then you should google for proper diagnostic tests which on an engine of that era are generally not that hard to accomplish. Before you get into the injectors I would start with fuel filtering, delivery, etc. Pretty sure there’s a diagnostic for the fuel delivery system as well. Just work through from start to finish and pretty soon you will find the culprit. It’s important to be systematic.

The best thing you can have is the factory workshop manual that will have every system laid out from A-Z with comprehensive diagnostics. They are usually in the form of a browser based data base, rather than a book. Spend some time looking for it and you will probably find it, most of them are out there.

Have the injectors tested too, they are not lifetime items and do need to replaced eventually.

White smoke is incomplete combustion or sometimes lack of compression. If the incomplete combustion is due to tired / faulty glow-plugs, (especially if it only happens when cold), then double-glow it before starting and see if the problem persists.

If your injectors are worn, a cleaner wont do anything. Needs springs replacing, break pressure resetting and ideally new nozzles too.

I'd say if you consider the WL-t a land slug maybe it has always had an underlying problem? They're great responsive motors apart from their propensity to crack and warp heads. My old one would absolutely snot all over any D4D Hilux I've had in a straight line, probably didn't quite have the torque when towing etc but very peppy for a 2.5 diesel. Throw some new/recon injectors at it you may be pleasantly surprised

Hmmm. Have you had any other work done to it recently? All the other things suggested above may be relevant, but more likely that you have a blown head gasket or a cracked head.

try a pressure leak down test to see if it is holding pressure. If it is, ok cool. move on

What sort of glow plugs did you put in there?? cheap ones are no good they don't last. Get a decent brand or genuine ones. For gods sake don't break one off in the head, you've got major issues if you do. The head will have to come off.

Check the amount of power to the actual glow plugs too individually. Make sure they are getting the full amount or they wont work properly.

Its unlikely to be a fuel issue if it makes full power once warm, run up etc etc.

If you need to dig deeper, can you isolate which piston it is?? if you can, try a compression check.

You may just have a lazy injector, but I doubt it.

100% one or two of the glow plugs are dead

$25 each from memory

Pull them out

Use jumper leads and supply them 12v from the battery

The good ones will glow orange

The duds will have a small hole in the carbon tip and not heat up at all

Easy to replace

Seen it on that motor probably 15-20 times now over the years

The cyl heads can crack around 130,000 km

Auckland guy sells new fully assembled heads for $1300 from memory

Pays to keep the radiator new after 100,000 km with new thermostat and heater hoses

Check the glow plugs first

That motor responds very well to a small amount of fuel wound into the adjustable fuel rack screw

Wind it in until the idle rises then tighten locknut

Adjust idle back down on the throttle butterfly

Take it for a drive, readjust until you are happy with the level of black smoke under load and throttle.

They are quick enough with extra fuel wound in.

Valve clearance

With the wlt they also factory glow for around a min, regardless of temp, so stop and start when hot smokes glows but usually need two gone to make it really rough starting 3 gone and you will really struggle to start

Don't do it.... it will all end in tears... I have seen it several times when additives have been used in oil and fuel... most memorable was in Picton... guy thought it would be a good idea to use a "Restorer" product in his twin v8 Diesel launch fuel system. He headed out at 20 kts into a 10kt northerly.... he limped back in an hour later at 10 kts with a 10kt tail wind... it looked like the apocalypse was coming down the sound, he good as totally blacked out the sky.... the cloud and stench wafted over Picton. I got the lovely job of replacing 16 injectors and draining all the fuel, some 2000L. It would seem the fuel system was cleaned out all the way to the nozzles, where it all deposited.

But seriously... I have worked in the maintenance and engineering field with some impressive machinery over the years. For the last 20 years I have specialized in reliability. When it comes to engines, I have hung my hat on three basic principals... clean as possible Air/Oil/Fuel and do not use anything that the OEM or fuel company do not put in the Air/Oil/Fuel.... and I have an exceptional track record.... third principal, premium grade lubricants and filtration to suit the application.

Additives are only peddled by snake oil salesman waving testimony's from the dupped... sorry if any of you feel insulted by this and feel the need to react.

Before anyone decides to argue the toss, ask your self these two questions... because they are the main two counter arguments.

If it reduces fuel consumption and emissions.... why is it never legislated by govts and endorsed by the green movement?
If you think a machine manufacturer will make $ from parts sales ask.... what is the most profitable, parts sales or a reputation for making reliable machinery?

With Machinery... there are no cures in a can, only the occasional asprin.

There ends my "expert" rant for the day.

Had the same thing happen in my prado some time back. Leaking Injector seals, diesel in the cylinders at ignition making smoke. Only happen when car parked overnight nose facing downhill.


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Originally Posted by Dicko

Had the same thing happen in my prado some time back. Leaking Injector seals, diesel in the cylinders at ignition making smoke. Only happen when car parked overnight nose facing downhill.


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Hah... reminds me of the complaint about the Cadillac that liked chocolate Ice-cream but did not like vanilla ice-cream. This guy would buy ice-cream for his family for desert occasionally, after dinner the family would occasionally drive to the supermarket for a tub of ice-cream ... this was a genuine complaint to Cadillac. The engineers....the engineering group, being vanilla ice-cream fans just had to investigate.
Turns out that the chocolate ice-cream was near the checkout but the vanilla was at the opposite end of the supermarket.... the extra time taken to purchase the vanilla gave the warm engine just the right amount of time to develop a vapor block / cavity in the fuel/carb system making it hard to start.

I actually use 'fuel master' in my diesel vehicles. It is a fuel additive / lubricant.

I think it works well. I did the injector seals in a d4d engine hilux. The injectors in these things can carbon up badly. They were as clean as a whistle ( like you had just taken them out of the box) and the only thing I could put it down to was the fuel master ( and the seals being done on time too)

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Originally Posted by tac a1

I actually use 'fuel master' in my diesel vehicles. It is a fuel additive / lubricant.

I think it works well. I did the injector seals in a d4d engine hilux. The injectors in these things can carbon up badly. They were as clean as a whistle ( like you had just taken them out of the box) and the only thing I could put it down to was the fuel master ( and the seals being done on time too)

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The aussies have been putting 2-stroke premix oil in their tanks to achieve the same thing

Glow plugs.

I used to have two of these utes, used to replace a glow plug every few months.

You don't need to remove them to check them, just remove the busbar acoss the tops of them then use a multi meter to continuity check them or a 12v test light attached to the positive terminal. Good ones will light up the test light, bad ones won't. they're basically just a large lightbulb.

You don't need to replace the full set either, just one at a time, takes less than 10 min to test and replace.

Did they replace ALL the glow plugs recently? Cheap ass mechanics will only test with meter and replace faulty one only, only to have the rest follow soon after. Do the whole set at same time, they are not expensive. White smoke on start only is unburnt fuel due to crapped out glow plug. If it had stayed white when engine has warmed, then you can say it has other major problems that need addressing. Process of elimination, While talking to an engine reconditioner (which I do often when visiting 55six next door) as he is a good sort, we discuss all sorts and one being reading the telltale colour signs of exhaust smoke relating to engine wear/faults and injectors.

Thanks for all the advice so far.

Ryan, "land slug" cause of what it likes to do offroad - steep bits and 4x4 it seems to like crawling up things around 1700 - 2000 rpm.

Slug - had the local mechanic do the glow plugs, I was nervous about breaking them off :D They've invoiced me for 4, will do the multimeter tests later today and see if one is faulty.

Diesel additives have a place depending on what you think you need to achieve... I use Wynns EDT as a bug preventer and helps to keep the injectors from building up varnish as I mostly use Gull diesel - this doesn't have the brand specific additive that the other mainstream fuels have so the EDT takes the place of the additive dose that is present in the other brand fuel. I had one diesel vehicle start running like a complete bag of snot, rough running, hard starting, consumption on the inbuilt display went up by 2.5L/100km and I was thinking it was about to fully shit itself. Realised I hadn't dosed the thing for a few months as it was the wife's car so took it down, filled it up and gave it a double dose. 15Km later it was back to running normally and 7L/100km instead of 9.5...

So additives can do a lot for you in the right conditions but they aren't god bottles. They won't ressurect an engine that's obviously beyond it!

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Originally Posted by ebf

Thanks for all the advice so far.

Ryan, "land slug" cause of what it likes to do offroad - steep bits and 4x4 it seems to like crawling up things around 1700 - 2000 rpm.

Slug - had the local mechanic do the glow plugs, I was nervous about breaking them off :D They've invoiced me for 4, will do the multimeter tests later today and see if one is faulty.

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Did you get it sorted?

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Did you get it sorted?

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Yeah VC, one of the new plugs was a dud. All good now :thumbsup: