DUI driving restrictions on private land?

to cut a long story short a shepherd on my parents farm crashed his ute on the public gravel road near home and looks likely to lose his license due to blood alcohol reading

according to the old lady a certain cop has been very insistent that he cannot drive a vehicle even on private farmland while his license is revoked. even went as far as insisting he couldn't drive the side x side on the farm. i cannot believe this to be correct

surely a few on here have experience with this situation and could verify?

No experience or knowledge but I thought that on private land it was up to landowner. Know that I have driven on private roads well over the legal limit in the past.

Same applies for wof and rego, no need if not on public roads so why do you need a licence

The cop is bullshitting! Section 5 of the Land Transport Act makes it clear that a license is needed to drive on a public road. Private land is exempt from a drivers license, registration, WOF, or any other bureacratic money-grabbing crap. What may well need looking at is the ramifications of the Health & Safety regulations if he is an employee (more bureacratic crap!).

Insurance might be questionable without a licence driving farm machinery

The legal definition of a road is very broad. From memory its goes something like, Places where public have access whether of right or not. So a tanker track is a road, a paddock with a open gate onto a road is a road, close the gate and its a paddock. We were told at some farming course that if someone has a accident on a farm, close the gate so its not a road, also remember that all vehicles have to be up to warrantable standards. With the elf and safety today if something happens and its not up to scratch your in the shit over your head. Indeed the modern PC world is bullshit,

He should be charged with using a mobile phone ( not hands free) when driving. Thats a bigger h&s risk than no lid. Remember that if it goes any further

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Originally Posted by Tussock

Its in that grey area where police are delving into OSH enforcement, OSH laws being largely undefined they have quite unlimited power to dictate what you do and do not do on "your" land.

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Police don't have any authority for enforcement of HSWA. Worksafe NZ is the regulator, the only other agencies to have been given authority to exercise powers under HSWA are the CAA NZ and Maritime NZ, in their respective sectors.

Nobody has "unlimited power".

Tell him good luck catching him when he can't even go on the land.

You don't need a licence to ride a quad or 4x4 basically need to be over 16 not under influence of alcohol as per manufacturer recommendations etc etc ..only implication maybe Osh if a tractor or farm ute accident occurred. Only need a license when on public roads in a tractor.

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What's he gonna do? Flick his lights and siren on in the commodore and chase you up a ridge?

I think its a diff situation though when someone has had license revoked...they have been explicitly asked NOT to drive. Similar to someone who has had their FA License revoked, they are no longer free to use firearm even under supervision of someone who does have fa lic....

When I was truck driving many moons ago lost license for 1 mth for not filling out logbook correctly.. got to choose month off and could still drive my car and bike.

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Originally Posted by dirtyhabit

I think its a diff situation though when someone has had license revoked...they have been explicitly asked NOT to drive. Similar to someone who has had their FA License revoked, they are no longer free to use firearm even under supervision of someone who does have fa lic....

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So by your logic if you were the motocross or enduro world champion and you had your license revoked for getting caught doing 141kph on a deserted flat road in your commodore you could no longer work by racing on closed courses or practise on the back of the farm.
I dont think so, lets remember "the courts are not in the business of ruining careers"

No no not my logic at all...

And to be fair, it isnt the courts ruining their career, it would be the fault.of the person breaking the law wouldnt it?

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Originally Posted by dirtyhabit

And to be fair, it isnt the courts ruining their career, it would be the fault.of the person breaking the law wouldnt it?

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Yes it would but the courts dont see it like that if you have a promising career in rugby, even if you have bludgeoned two others.

it's a fairly remote place, i don't recall many cops on the road that runs to the property so unlikely to be 'seen'.
so from the H&S viewpoint do you reckon it is the farmers responsibility to police that their worker has a license - or is it up to the license holder if adequately warned?
i get the insurance thing, that could cause headaches if something got wrecked

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Originally Posted by LOC

it's a fairly remote place, i don't recall many cops on the road that runs to the property so unlikely to be 'seen'.
so from the H&S viewpoint do you reckon it is the farmers responsibility to police that their worker has a license - or is it up to the license holder if adequately warned?
i get the insurance thing, that could cause headaches if something got wrecked

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If you look at the forklift one for instance, you are required to have a drivers licence to "drive" one on public roads ( see public road description above) but that license is no good to "operate" the forklift either on a road or a private workplace, you need the osh/worksafe ticket to actually pick up stuff with it.

For "working" on private property common sense would say as long as he/she is trained and competent to operate said machinery a license to drive on a public road is irrelevant.

This is my interpretation only based on my experiences, seek legal council is my advice.

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

seek legal council is my advice.

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This bit.

My understanding is that the part in the LTA 1998 interpretation of a road regarding "open to public, whether by right or not", or something similar, is in regards to private carparks, access points etc where it is common for the public to be using their vehicles.

My belief is that a farm doesn't meet the definition of a road, therefore isn't bound by the land transport act except for a few offences re reckless driving causing death etc.

I'm just going off of the top of my head, I'm not a traffic cop, but I know people have gotten off of EBAs when located in a driveway that's not shared.

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Originally Posted by Savage1

My understanding is that the part in the LTA 1998 interpretation of a road regarding "open to public, whether by right or not", or something similar, is in regards to private carparks, access points etc where it is common for the public to be using their vehicles.

My belief is that a farm doesn't meet the definition of a road, therefore isn't bound by the land transport act except for a few offences re reckless driving causing death etc.

I'm just going off of the top of my head, I'm not a traffic cop, but I know people have gotten off of EBAs when located in a driveway that's not shared.

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EBA?

Excess Breath Alcohol, DUI is so 90s

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Originally Posted by Savage1

Excess Breath Alcohol, DUI is so 90s

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You mean so Australian , it used to be DIC .

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

So by your logic if you were the motocross or enduro world champion and you had your license revoked for getting caught doing 141kph on a deserted flat road in your commodore you could no longer work by racing on closed courses or practise on the back of the farm.
I dont think so, lets remember "the courts are not in the business of ruining careers"

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I worked with a guy who lost his licence DUI and he had a bastard of a time getting an exemption from MNZ or whoever the governing body for motorsport licences are to allow him to keep his race licence (the old NZ v8 series), which did seem odd as you dont actually need a car licence to get a race license in the first place

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Originally Posted by Savage1

My understanding is that the part in the LTA 1998 interpretation of a road regarding "open to public, whether by right or not", or something similar, is in regards to private carparks, access points etc where it is common for the public to be using their vehicles.

My belief is that a farm doesn't meet the definition of a road, therefore isn't bound by the land transport act except for a few offences re reckless driving causing death etc.

I'm just going off of the top of my head, I'm not a traffic cop, but I know people have gotten off of EBAs when located in a driveway that's not shared.

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@Savage1

On a side note but kind of related
What about when people do burnouts on private property?

A guy I race stockcars with lost his drivers licence after doing a burnout in his driveway in his drift car.
I was around the back of the house next to the shed.

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

So by your logic if you were the motocross or enduro world champion and you had your license revoked for getting caught doing 141kph on a deserted flat road in your commodore you could no longer work by racing on closed courses or practise on the back of the farm.
I dont think so, lets remember "the courts are not in the business of ruining careers"

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I can only speak for motorcycle racing, not tin-tops.
In motorcycle racing you don't need a road licence to race on a closed circuit course.
Depending on which law is used to close the roads for a true road circuit race you might not need one there either.

After a stand down period a worker can often get a "special" licence to get to/from work.
A farm would not usually be counted as a road so licence requirements may not appy though H&S will.

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Originally Posted by 199p

@Savage1

On a side note but kind of related
What about when people do burnouts on private property?

A guy I race stockcars with lost his drivers licence after doing a burnout in his driveway in his drift car.
I was around the back of the house next to the shed.

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Shared driveway? Are you sure it happened on private property and not just out the gate? Or was impounded for a previous occurrence? Were you there or was "I" a typo for it? If so I'd say he's lying or omitting a few facts.

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Originally Posted by Savage1

Shared driveway? Are you sure it happened on private property and not just out the gate? Or was impounded for a previous occurrence? Were you there or was "I" a typo for it? If so I'd say he's lying or omitting a few facts.

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not sure on shared driveway

I wasn't there, only know him through stock cars.
The I was meant to be an "it" spot he did burnout as around back of house on driveway next to his shed, Thinking like a carport

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Originally Posted by LOC

to cut a long story short a shepherd on my parents farm crashed his ute on the public gravel road near home and looks likely to lose his license due to blood alcohol reading

according to the old lady a certain cop has been very insistent that he cannot drive a vehicle even on private farmland while his license is revoked. even went as far as insisting he couldn't drive the side x side on the farm. i cannot believe this to be correct

surely a few on here have experience with this situation and could verify?

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You always get some drongo bureaucrat who knows nothing about the law.The Land Transport Act does not apply to private land.Fail.

I love how the focus of this thread is on the cop that may or may not be correct about what the implications are as far as the Sheppard's place of work rather than on the mouth breathing, retard that decided it would be a good idea to drink and drive in the first place.

the question was pretty clearly about how it is going to affect my family and the ability of an employee to work rather than the cop or the guy boozing

Not the original question so much, actually at all LOC, more the following posts.

Off topic slightly, but given his appalling lack of judgement, do your parents really want the retard working for them still?

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Originally Posted by Proudkiwi

Not the original question so much, actually at all LOC, more the following posts.

Off topic slightly, but given his appalling lack of judgement, do your parents really want the retard working for them still?

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Thats rather a large judgmental call there mister kiwi.

For all you know he may be the perfect worker .

To the op the cop is full of shit, 1st off how many under 15s drive shit on a farm?? Shit loads your self included I bet
Private property end of story
I was driving as soon as I could touch the pedals

well he's had a very severe warning and is at the junior end of the shepherd spectrum. but they are bloody hard to find, particularly when we. have just started lambing, so i expect he'll be given another chance

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Thats rather a large judgmental call there mister kiwi.

For all you know he may be the perfect worker .

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Maybe a bit judgemental, but the perfect worker would never put his employer in this situation so he sure doesn't qualify for the perfect worker tag.

If he had hit a killed a small child as a result of his actions would you all be so quick to give him a pass? It was only luck that it didn't happen.

Given the cops response I suspect that the guy has history.

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Originally Posted by Proudkiwi

Maybe a bit judgemental, but the perfect worker would never put his employer in this situation so he sure doesn't qualify for the perfect worker tag.

If he had hit a killed a small child as a result of his actions would you all be so quick to give him a pass? It was only luck that it didn't happen.

Given the cops response I suspect that the guy has history.

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Or maybe the cop has history of being an arshole...We dont know do we.

We also dont know the extent of the fail.