Help Vitara electricla gremlins?

I have been doing some engine work on my wee 1996 5 door Vitara. While it was off the road I thought I would sort out a connection issue in the indicator stalk....It would stop indicating when turning left even with the stalk still in position (IE it had not clicked off) I had not yet refitted the switch cluster as it is still on the bench, but when we connected the battery my headlights are on high beam - potentially both high and dip - cant tell. I found the corrosion causing the issue with the indicator and am now struggling to reassemble the 'bits' into the switch gear.

Can anyone explain why the headlights are still on while the switches are disconnected and sitting on the bench?


@gonetropo Any ideas? I could PM but thought maybe , just maybe someone else has had something similar and could be interested......

no ideas at this stage, shouldnt be too hard but at present i cant do any work after normal hours as the vax has knocked me over, also due to get wisdom teeth out next week plus a few other issue

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Originally Posted by gonetropo

no ideas at this stage, shouldnt be too hard but at present i cant do any work after normal hours as the vax has knocked me over, also due to get wisdom teeth out next week plus a few other issue

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Thats ok. Was more after "what the hell? answers..I cannot think for the life of me a method to wire it up so this would happen if I was trying to .... Car is without WOF and not running yet so is not mobile. I just dont understand how lights can work when you remove the on / off switch........

disconnected and still operating in a manner that will drain your power?......
best guess is your car is on the govt payroll

disconnected and still operating in a manner that will drain your power?......
best guess is your car is on the govt payroll

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Originally Posted by gonetropo

no ideas at this stage, shouldnt be too hard but at present i cant do any work after normal hours as the vax has knocked me over, also due to get wisdom teeth out next week plus a few other issue

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Fuck me, the battery is still connected, it ain’t rocket science :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Maca49

Fuck me, the battery is still connected, it ain’t rocket science :thumbsup:

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I have to disconnect the battery as he headlights remain on...where it is confusing is the switch gear is completely removed so there is nothing connecting to the lights....and they are still on....

and by removed , I mean
Attachment 202625

On my bench in pieces

Probably got a relay that's getting a backfeed on the earth side, or it's normally closed or somesich and without the switch gear in place it's holding it always on. Unplug the bastards if you need to move it around during the day...

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Originally Posted by No.3

Probably got a relay that's getting a backfeed on the earth side, or it's normally closed or somesich and without the switch gear in place it's holding it always on. Unplug the bastards if you need to move it around during the day...

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Unplugged the headlights...As for moving it, as of this afternoon, it is finally reassembled apart from the switch gear above and we need to set the timing before we start it (tried and it winds over but not start yet....) Could have bought another one for what I have spent on it but for that I would end up with something else going wrong on the next one...so figured bite the bullet and fix it properly. It is the first time the engine has been apart since I have had it (100,000kms) and it certainly appears to have not been apart before that (another 160,000km) so if I can get half of that distance, I will be happy....Currently has 270,000km and redoing the head for the first time.

While at it - sounds like it would make a good rebuild story for the NZ4WD magazine? They pay for stories with pics.

Could this be an anti-tamper, anti-theft device? Pull out the indicator assembly and all lights go on at full. Could interfere with someone trying to hot-wire a car in a dark alley. Some cars the indicators won't work if you've just hot wired the car, increasing likelihood of getting pulled over by police.

Probably most mechanics have never seen this lights problem, @timattalon, as they do as they're told: disconnect the battery before messing with steering column and air bags.

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Originally Posted by Cordite

Probably most mechanics have never seen this lights problem, @timattalon, as they do as they're told: disconnect the battery before messing with steering column and air bags.

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Too old to have airbags....no central locking, no electric windows and no aircon...Indicators, lights, horn and wipers is about all the extras it has.......Basic and functional (mostly) suits me fine. Looking at a potential stuck relay (Thank you #gonetropo) as the issue. but will have to wait until work week finishes on Thursday.

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Originally Posted by timattalon

Too old to have airbags....no central locking, no electric windows and no aircon.
.

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ahhh i miss the days when cars only had few wires to run them.......more of these need to be saved from the wreckers yard tell a youngster you had to do the points and plugs , adjust the timing and rekit the carby and all you would get is "cant you plug in the computer and clear the codes"

simpler times

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Originally Posted by scotty

ahhh i miss the days when cars only had few wires to run them.......more of these need to be saved from the wreckers yard tell a youngster you had to do the points and plugs , adjust the timing and rekit the carby and all you would get is "cant you plug in the computer and clear the codes"

simpler times

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Apparently that would not have helped me. Thanks all for the suggestions above.

Gremlin has been found and dispatched. During reassembly we managed to catch the wire that goes from the high beam to the spotlight relay behind a sneaky bolt which earthed it. As the headlight switch is after the light technically the switch earths the lights to turn them on- as such the bolt created an earth turning the lights on. It was a lucky catch as it is not in the headlight wiring but the accessory spotlight wiring.....

Car still wont start but that is another story....we are still working out why.

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Originally Posted by timattalon

Apparently that would not have helped me. Thanks all for the suggestions above.

Gremlin has been found and dispatched. During reassembly we managed to catch the wire that goes from the high beam to the spotlight relay behind a sneaky bolt which earthed it. As the headlight switch is after the light technically the switch earths the lights to turn them on- as such the bolt created an earth turning the lights on. It was a lucky catch as it is not in the headlight wiring but the accessory spotlight wiring.....

Car still wont start but that is another story....we are still working out why.

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Negative switched - yeah that's a vehicle thing. Most other things run positive switching, so the main current conductor is unimpeded (or so the theory goes). We can argue the whole 'positive attracts, negative repels' argument about which is the correct switching method later... Where it's a bit of a pain is trying to use different manufacturer's products together in terms of accessory and control/switching units that come in negative switching when everything else is positive switched - these are things that have displays or LED indicating lights on them. You either have to split feed the things or rewire one so everything is the same switching system. I used to run into this all the time with boats, especially with the older generation types where the main conductors had been in place for a few years. The negative earth cable was always fizzed up, and the conductor was pinked out and stuffed. Positive switched was usually OK on the switching side, with the corresponding fizz on the negative whereas the negative switched was invariably poosed across the whole unit.

Car won't start - hahahaha have fun with that, you'll probably find a tail light with a loose screw!

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Originally Posted by Cordite

Could this be an anti-tamper, anti-theft device? Pull out the indicator assembly and all lights go on at full. Could interfere with someone trying to hot-wire a car in a dark alley. Some cars the indicators won't work if you've just hot wired the car, increasing likelihood of getting pulled over by police.

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I am not sure mine has that capability....with the techlevels in the thing, I am surprised that I did not find a carburettor in it....

As a side note, it is working now after a visit to @gonetropo a few months back....However it started working the night before and has not failed yet...maybe it heard I was taking it to someone who was going to go all doctor on its electrics and it decided it did not like that idea.....

Either way the Vitara is back in service so I have listed its temporary replacement for sale (A diamante) ...